Understanding Rescue Dogs: Overcoming Triggers and Fostering Trust
In this episode, we’ll talk about the world of rescue dogs with Debby, a passionate advocate for rescue dog rehabilitation. Her journey began in the mid-1970s when she noticed the increasing number of terrified pups entering homes. Through her experiences, she shares valuable insights on identifying rescue dogs' triggers, understanding their impact on adoptive families, and providing effective strategies to help these dogs overcome their fears. This episode discusses Debby's journey, with her transformative relationship with Nora, a fear-biter she adopted, and the profound lessons they learned together.
Listen to Episode #61 Now:
BIO:
A dog lover since childhood, Debby began petsitting in the mid-1970s when most of her clients bought dogs from reputable breeders. Some 10 years later, many more people were adopting dogs and she noticed that many of these pups were terrified, sometimes shaking uncontrollably. Debby knew she had to figure out a way to reassure them and bond with them to let them know that they were safe and in good hands. That resulted in her starting her time with them with a long walk, always letting the dog set the pace. Doing that allowed the dog to burn off much of their anxiety and relax quickly. Debby also began to speak more softly, to praise and smile at them frequently, and avoided moving too fast and not reaching out over them - instead reaching out a hand at their chest level instead.
In 1995, Debby adopted a dog of her own after having spent many hours at the local shelter walking and hiking with her. Just 2 weeks after she brought her new pup home, she discovered that she was a fear-biter, triggered by men. Knowing what a huge potential liability she had, Debby began working closely with her dog (whom she named Nora) to rehabilitate her. She took a “deep dive” into understanding dogs, and specifically her own dog. Debby became an astute observer, began to know what triggered Nora and learned how to reassure her.
Spending this time resulted in Nora being able to walk off-leash anywhere: even by the side of a road. In time, Nora was able to make friends with some men and actually looked forward to seeing her special buddies. She could calmly meet and greet people of all ages, even excited children, who wanted to pet her. She was comfortable in her own fur!
I see our relationships with dogs as being like any positive relationship - it’s one of give and take. I gave Nora as much off-leash freedom as I possibly could, as long as she was safe. In return, I asked her to respect my boundaries at home and to be a friendly, non-reactive dog when we were out and about. All along, I gave her lots of affection, taught her some basic “commands” (the most important of which were come and stay), and praised her sincerely whenever she overcame another hurdle, when she released another fear.
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Beverly Isla: Welcome to Save A Pooch on PetLife Radio.
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Beverly Isla: Thank you for listening in today.
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Beverly Isla: I am Beverly, this is your host.
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Beverly Isla: This episode is dedicated to understanding rescue dogs and the journey of rehabilitation and trust building.
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Beverly Isla: And our guest today is Debby.
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Beverly Isla: She's an advocate for rescue dog rehabilitation.
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Beverly Isla: And her journey into the world of rescue dogs began in the mid 70s, when she noticed the increased number of terrified pups entering homes, and her experiences have given her a deep understanding of the challenges and rewards that come with rehabilitating these pups.
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Beverly Isla: So when we get back from these messages, we will hear from Debby.
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Beverly Isla: Welcome back to Save A Pooch.
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Beverly Isla: We are talking with Debby, an advocate for rescue dog rehabilitation.
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Beverly Isla: Thank you for taking the time today to share your experience of helping rescue dogs and their rehab journey, which is what we are all about.
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Beverly Isla: So let's start by discussing your early experiences as a pet sitter, particularly the transition from working with dogs from reputable breeders to encountering rescue dogs.
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Beverly Isla: So how did this shift in your clientele and your understanding of the needs of rescue dogs?
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Debby: I was a pet sitter starting in Connecticut in the mid 70s.
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Debby: And in the beginning, most of my clients had dogs who had come from reputable breeders, and these were friendly, relaxed dogs.
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Debby: But by the late 1970s or early 1980s, more and more people had started adopting dogs from shelters.
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Debby: I don't even know if there were that many rescue groups at that point, but anyway, these were not dogs who had come from a reputable breeder.
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Debby: And the first thing I noticed, Deb, was how scared they were.
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Debby: Some of these dogs would just, I would walk into the room and the person would be there, the people would be there, and the dog would be shaking, just uncontrollable shaking.
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Debby: So I kind of shifted my focus with these particular dogs.
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Debby: How can I reassure them?
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Debby: How can I bond with them so that they can relax and trust me?
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Debby: And, you know, that first, the first time that I took care of them, the first time or two sometimes, it was really difficult for them.
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Debby: Eventually, they got to know me and they got to know that I was trustworthy, but it was just a totally, totally different experience with these dogs.
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Beverly Isla: What you said earlier, I find it very interesting, like in the mid-70s, you didn't encounter a lot of rescue dogs and then it started growing.
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Debby: Yes, this was in Connecticut and more and more people had become aware of the fact that there were these mutts, you know, these dogs who needed homes.
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Debby: And I think more and more people were motivated to help them.
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Debby: Before that, it was almost a status symbol to have a purebred dog, you know, oh yeah, we have this golden retriever and she came from this breeder and, you know, we've gotten two other dogs from her before.
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Debby: And, you know, it was just part of.
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Debby: And then more and more people started to open their hearts in their homes to these dogs who were in shelters, which was great.
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Beverly Isla: Oh, that's nice.
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Beverly Isla: That's nice.
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Beverly Isla: But I'm pretty sure that the breeders probably didn't like that part.
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Debby: Probably not.
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Beverly Isla: Now, can you share with our listeners some of the key indicators or, quote, triggers?
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Beverly Isla: And I'll ask you to clarify what that word is, that you've learned to recognize over the years when it comes to rescue dogs?
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Debby: Trigger, the simple answer is a trigger is anything that triggers a dog.
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Debby: But let's step back a second.
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Debby: I'm going to share with you a trigger in my own life, OK?
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Debby: I was born late in the year.
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Debby: So when it was time for me to go to kindergarten, I was still pretty young compared to a lot of the other kids in my school.
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Debby: My mother had to take me to the kindergarten class, Bev, oh, five times before I would enter the room because I was triggered by this group of kids.
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Debby: I didn't know any of these kids.
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Debby: I didn't know what they were doing.
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Debby: It was a big room with a high ceiling and I was absolutely terrified.
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Debby: And I basically pitched a fit.
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Debby: I would not step foot in.
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Debby: And I wasn't that kind of kid.
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Debby: I really didn't ever have temper tantrums.
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Debby: So if you kind of take that description, a trigger for a dog can be, gosh.
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Beverly Isla: Anything.
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Debby: Yeah, I mean, it can be a person wearing a hat.
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Debby: It can be a big crowd of people.
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Debby: It can be loud noises, thunder.
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Debby: Sometimes even smells can trigger a dog.
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Debby: Anything that is very, very unfamiliar.
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Debby: And I just want to preface this too with some dogs are just born naturally confident.
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Debby: You know, they jump all over everything, and they're the first one to greet the new person or the new dog.
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Debby: Some dogs are much, much more timid, much more shy.
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Debby: And most dogs fall, I think, in the middle.
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Debby: Most dogs are a little bit shy here and more confident there.
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Debby: But if you get that shy dog, and that shy dog has come from, you know, a shelter, oh my goodness, oh my goodness.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, so you were able to, I guess, see these, even that word trigger triggers me, but for you to be able to recognize those, it would take, I don't know, I'd say the average person, it would take a bit to see what's normal and what's not, right?
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Debby: That was one of the things I learned early on.
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Debby: Two things helped me a lot.
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Debby: One was to just start to be very observant, very gentle with them, very slow moving, slow talking, nothing abrupt, nothing too excited, and also just kind of casually keeping a really close eye on them.
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Debby: And the other thing I did was to take them for long walks.
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Debby: That seemed to distract them.
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Debby: Once they got their nose to the ground and they weren't staring at me, this new scary person, once they started to just kind of get into being a dog again outside, they could relax, and then I could just kind of hang back six feet behind them on the leash and just watch and see what did they like, what sort of set them off.
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Debby: And so the power of observation plus exercise to mitigate that high level of anxiety, high level of fear.
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Debby: And I have to add sometimes to not usually, but sometimes it wasn't just fear, sometimes it was actually aggression.
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Beverly Isla: Yes, I've seen that plenty of times.
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Beverly Isla: It's funny, it reminds me of the days when I used to dog walk and I would always get the rescue dogs that was very, very skittish, scared.
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Beverly Isla: And every time I'd get that dog, I was like, oh boy, this is going to take some time for rehab to go on a group walk.
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Beverly Isla: But I'd always begin right off the bat with bringing that dog in a group, but with a leash on.
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Beverly Isla: And usually if they lived in a condo, I'd always take some time to warm up with the dog and we'd run around the hallways just to get that dog out of like a panic mode.
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Beverly Isla: Because I'd have to find this dog when I walked into their home.
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Beverly Isla: It would be in a corner somewhere.
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Beverly Isla: So that took some time for me to even get the leash on.
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Beverly Isla: But after I would say weeks, these kind of dogs would be running around in the off leash dog areas, like running.
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Beverly Isla: And I'd be that person jumping up and down.
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Beverly Isla: And people are like, why are you doing that?
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Beverly Isla: It's like, oh, you have no idea what this dog has just come from.
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Beverly Isla: But yeah, so I really commend your work on that.
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Debby: And back at you, Bev, because you stopped and you took a breath and you honed in and you waited.
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Debby: You didn't just run right over the dog and try to clip the leash on or something, which is actually send them into even more panic.
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Debby: You just have to take it very slowly, very step by step.
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Debby: What I learned later was that whole process of taking things very slowly, step by step is called, it has a name, it's called systematic desensitization.
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Debby: Yeah, three syllables, you know.
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Beverly Isla: Right, the medical term for what we were just talking about.
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Debby: Exactly.
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Debby: It actually has a formal term.
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Debby: I didn't know that in the beginning, but when you think about it, what I tried to do was put myself in that dog's paws.
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Debby: What was that dog experiencing?
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Debby: And how could I help the poor dog just calm down and actually even maybe enjoy our time together?
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Debby: So the combination of slow little baby steps and some exercise and some diversion made all the difference in the world.
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Beverly Isla: Right, right.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, that makes sense.
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Beverly Isla: Especially with some of them, just the car rides can be so therapeutic.
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Beverly Isla: So if people would just do that and not even go anywhere, but just drive.
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Debby: My dog Bev had all the bank tellers trained.
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Debby: She'd be like, oh yeah, you know, and they would see her in the back and I'd roll the window down and does your dog want a treat?
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Debby: And it's like, yeah, sure.
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Debby: She loved that.
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Debby: I think too that there may be something about the motion of the car because, you know, like, have you heard moms talking about when their babies are really just crying and crying, they sometimes in desperation, they put them in the car and strap them in the seat and in, you know, 10 or 15 minutes, the babies fall asleep.
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Beverly Isla: Yes.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, exact same thing.
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Beverly Isla: Exact same thing.
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Beverly Isla: Now, what are some common misconceptions people have about rescue dogs and their truers and how can we work to increase their understanding of these misunderstandings?
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Debby: I'm going to make a really broad general statement here, okay?
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Debby: And I'm sure some of your listeners will disagree with me, but dogs who end up in general in shelters or rescue groups usually didn't get there because they had an easy start in life.
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Debby: I would say for the most part, when a dog ends up in a shelter, it's often because the person or the people just don't understand how they can spend even 10 or 15 minutes a day with their dog, bonding with their dog to socialize them, to expose them to new and different things so that they're not frightened all the time.
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Debby: It really, it's a small investment in time.
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Debby: It's kind of like sitting down with your kid who's really stuck on their science homework.
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Debby: They're just, I just don't get this Jurassic period.
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Debby: What does that mean?
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Debby: If you sit down for 10 or 15 minutes with your kid and explain that or explain fractions or something in math, that can make a whole huge amount of difference in that subsequent time in school.
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Debby: And the same thing is true with dogs.
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Debby: The more time we invest in our dogs, try to understand them, try to bond with them, try to help them, the more we get to know them, the stronger our relationship will be.
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Debby: And, you know, I mean, my dog, eventually she got to a point where I'm pretty sure if I had asked her to try to do a backflip, she would have tried.
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Beverly Isla: Yeah, I completely agree with your opinion.
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Beverly Isla: So thank you for bringing that up.
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Beverly Isla: And that this is probably for another phone call.
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Beverly Isla: But when you mentioned spending time to bond with your dogs, there are some cultures where that's just not a thing.
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Beverly Isla: These dogs are just for outdoor guardians.
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Beverly Isla: But that's another rabbit hole.
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Debby: Well, and then, you know, what's fascinating to me, though, too, and this is a little bit off on a tangent, is do you remember Chaser, the border collie that who had the incredible vocabulary?
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Beverly Isla: Oh, my gosh, I'm thinking of the lassie.
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Debby: Chaser was a black and white border collie, and she was featured, oh, this is now probably, gosh, 10 years ago or so on, like, I think she made it to 60 Minutes and, you know, a bunch of TV show.
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Debby: Anyway, she had a vocabulary, honestly, of over a thousand words.
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Debby: And then because of that and because of the research that her dad did, with her, all of a sudden there was, everybody wanted to research dog cognition, you know, what they could do with their brain.
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Debby: Chaser was so smart.
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Debby: Oh, there must be other smart dogs out there.
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Debby: Let's check this out.
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Debby: What I love now, and I think this is going to help dogs so, so much, now it's shifted from not just like how smart the dog is, but what does the dog feel.
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Debby: There was a time 20 years ago when you, if you had mentioned that any animal could feel, you would have been considered crazy.
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Debby: That was anthropomorphic, and animals didn't have feelings, right?
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Debby: Well, they do, you know, and now there's a whole bunch of really cool studies out there about how dogs feel.
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Debby: So we're finally, finally, thankfully starting to recognize, oh my gosh, you know, dogs have a brain and they think and they make judgments, and they also have feelings, you know.
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Debby: And the bond that we form with them starts with the strongest feeling of all, which is love.
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Debby: And then trust and then respect.
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Debby: Those are the three major components of a really strong, healthy bond with a dog.
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Beverly Isla: That's amazing.
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Beverly Isla: The three magic words.
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Beverly Isla: That's awesome.
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Beverly Isla: Thank you for that insight.
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Beverly Isla: We're just going to have a quick break, and when we get back, we'll continue talking with Debby.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pest.
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Announcer: >On Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Pet Life Radio.
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Beverly Isla: Welcome back to Save A Pooch.
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Beverly Isla: We are talking with rescue dog advocate Debby.
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Beverly Isla: Thank you so much for that insight before the break.
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Beverly Isla: Can you repeat the three famous words that build a strong, trusting bond between human and canine?
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Debby: I think of it as a three-legged stool, and the first leg is love.
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Debby: And if you can remember meeting a dog for that first time, it's truly like your heart just expands.
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Debby: I mean, you just know in every cell of your body that, oh my gosh, this dog is, I just love this dog.
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Debby: And then it expands, it gets bigger to embrace trust, and then even bigger to embrace mutual respect back and forth.
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Beverly Isla: Absolutely.
00:17:40.432 --> 00:17:43.652
Beverly Isla: Which brings us to our next topic that is close to your heart.
00:17:43.992 --> 00:17:58.432
Beverly Isla: Can you walk us through the challenges you faced when you discovered Nora or your past dog, I guess, was a fear-biter, particularly triggered by men, and the methods that you found effective in helping her overcome her fears and building trust?
00:17:58.912 --> 00:18:07.892
Debby: Two weeks after I brought Nora home, Bev, and I had been visiting her in the shelter every afternoon for like, oh my gosh, 10 days.
00:18:08.512 --> 00:18:09.452
Beverly Isla: What's her breed?
00:18:09.712 --> 00:18:11.552
Debby: She was a shepherd mix.
00:18:11.572 --> 00:18:19.472
Debby: She looked like a kind of a blonde, sort of a little bit scaled down shepherd, but she wasn't a 100% shepherd.
00:18:19.812 --> 00:18:26.032
Debby: So I knew from all my years of pet sitting, if I adopted a dog, my whole life would change.
00:18:26.052 --> 00:18:29.372
Debby: And it wasn't about putting a litter box out or anything.
00:18:29.392 --> 00:18:30.692
Debby: I'd have to walk this dog.
00:18:30.952 --> 00:18:39.912
Debby: I knew all the responsibilities, but I really, really, really thought that I was ready, you know, to open my heart and my home to a dog.
00:18:40.232 --> 00:18:41.492
Debby: And I fell in love with her.
00:18:41.552 --> 00:18:44.452
Debby: I mean, I literally, I mean, it was like a Disney moment.
00:18:44.772 --> 00:18:49.792
Debby: The sun was beaming down and I could hear violins in the background almost.
00:18:49.812 --> 00:18:52.432
Debby: I mean, really, it was just, oh boy.
00:18:52.892 --> 00:18:53.752
Beverly Isla: That's awesome.
00:18:54.912 --> 00:19:02.232
Debby: Well, so I brought her home after about 10 days of visiting her every day in the shelter.
00:19:02.952 --> 00:19:12.132
Debby: And she met my cats and one of my cats kind of freaked out, but he eventually calmed down and everything seemed to be stabilizing after about two weeks.
00:19:12.932 --> 00:19:22.012
Debby: And then right about at two weeks, one of the fellows who had helped build my garage had to come over and do some last minute work.
00:19:22.992 --> 00:19:27.472
Debby: And he was sitting at one point, he was sitting on the back steps and he was having lunch.
00:19:28.012 --> 00:19:30.192
Debby: And I knew that he had dogs of his own.
00:19:30.712 --> 00:19:32.392
Debby: And I knew he was a gentle man.
00:19:32.452 --> 00:19:35.432
Debby: And I said, Walt, would you like to meet my new dog?
00:19:35.452 --> 00:19:44.052
Debby: And he goes, sure, you know, so she went out and she was sitting next to him, Bev, on the back steps and he was feeding her little pieces of his lunch.
00:19:44.072 --> 00:19:51.932
Debby: I mean, it was just my heart filled up and I thought, oh my gosh, she's getting along with the cats and now she's getting along with Walt.
00:19:51.952 --> 00:19:52.992
Debby: And oh, this is great.
00:19:53.332 --> 00:19:55.512
Debby: So I turned away from the back door.
00:19:55.532 --> 00:19:59.092
Debby: I don't know what I was doing, but I got distracted by something.
00:19:59.112 --> 00:20:06.112
Debby: And then a couple of minutes later, Walt opened the door and he said, your dog just tried to bite me.
00:20:07.412 --> 00:20:08.792
Debby: And I thought, what?
00:20:09.272 --> 00:20:11.752
Debby: I mean, I thought I knew this dog, Bev.
00:20:11.952 --> 00:20:14.192
Debby: I thought I had vetted her.
00:20:14.212 --> 00:20:16.072
Debby: I thought I had made sure.
00:20:16.092 --> 00:20:20.212
Debby: I had not seen any sign of aggression in her at all.
00:20:20.312 --> 00:20:23.132
Debby: Not toward me, not toward my cats, not toward.
00:20:23.332 --> 00:20:24.892
Debby: So I was in shock.
00:20:25.092 --> 00:20:27.932
Debby: And I remember my stomach kind of did a flip.
00:20:28.472 --> 00:20:29.872
Debby: Anyway, I panicked.
00:20:30.352 --> 00:20:31.732
Debby: I absolutely panicked.
00:20:32.032 --> 00:20:35.572
Debby: A few days later, another guy came over to do some work on the house.
00:20:36.072 --> 00:20:40.172
Debby: And he told me that he and his wife had to just put down their shepherd.
00:20:40.912 --> 00:20:44.852
Debby: And I thought, oh, well, maybe this is a sign from God.
00:20:44.872 --> 00:20:48.712
Debby: I said, well, you know, my dog isn't really working out.
00:20:49.032 --> 00:20:50.932
Debby: And I'm ashamed to admit this today.
00:20:50.952 --> 00:20:54.472
Debby: But anyway, long story short, they took her.
00:20:54.852 --> 00:20:56.612
Debby: About two days later, they took her.
00:20:57.612 --> 00:21:04.092
Debby: And about two hours after I had dropped her off, the wife called me and said that she had run away.
00:21:04.572 --> 00:21:06.292
Debby: Now, did she really run away?
00:21:06.732 --> 00:21:08.452
Debby: Or did she try to bring her husband?
00:21:08.872 --> 00:21:09.472
Debby: I don't know.
00:21:09.672 --> 00:21:10.392
Debby: I wasn't there.
00:21:10.712 --> 00:21:16.892
Debby: So now I have this dog who I'd only had for a little over two weeks, and now she's out in the desert.
00:21:17.112 --> 00:21:18.512
Debby: This is Arizona.
00:21:18.832 --> 00:21:24.452
Debby: There are scorpions and, you know, rattlesnakes and coyotes and javelina.
00:21:24.452 --> 00:21:26.752
Debby: I mean, and by now it's May.
00:21:26.772 --> 00:21:29.292
Debby: It was getting up to into the 80s during the day.
00:21:29.612 --> 00:21:31.192
Debby: There's very little water.
00:21:31.472 --> 00:21:32.872
Debby: And I thought, what have I done?
00:21:33.132 --> 00:21:34.552
Debby: I felt terrible.
00:21:34.852 --> 00:21:37.092
Debby: I immediately contacted a friend.
00:21:37.352 --> 00:21:39.592
Debby: She made up a poster for me.
00:21:39.612 --> 00:21:41.752
Debby: I posted signs all over town.
00:21:41.772 --> 00:21:43.692
Debby: I called animal control.
00:21:43.692 --> 00:21:45.672
Debby: I called the local radio station.
00:21:45.692 --> 00:21:47.372
Debby: I did everything I could think of.
00:21:47.792 --> 00:21:49.912
Debby: And I just waited by the phone.
00:21:50.432 --> 00:21:52.072
Debby: It was before I had a cell phone.
00:21:52.772 --> 00:21:55.932
Debby: And finally, that was on a Thursday.
00:21:56.292 --> 00:22:00.152
Debby: I got a call on Sunday morning from the shelter.
00:22:01.052 --> 00:22:04.052
Debby: And they said, We think your dog is behind the building.
00:22:04.612 --> 00:22:06.612
Debby: And I just raced over there.
00:22:06.632 --> 00:22:09.252
Debby: And I'm praying, just please, please let her be there.
00:22:10.312 --> 00:22:11.132
Debby: It was her.
00:22:11.452 --> 00:22:14.052
Debby: And when she recognized my voice, she came running over.
00:22:14.052 --> 00:22:19.472
Debby: And at that moment, I said to myself, I don't know how I'm going to figure this out.
00:22:20.032 --> 00:22:24.132
Debby: I don't know what to do or not to do, but we will figure this out.
00:22:24.152 --> 00:22:26.452
Debby: And I will never, ever let go of you again.
00:22:26.912 --> 00:22:32.572
Debby: So the first thing I did was I thought, okay, I live in an area.
00:22:33.132 --> 00:22:39.772
Debby: My neighborhood had a riding stable, and the riding stable had made an arrangement with the Forest Service.
00:22:40.152 --> 00:22:46.532
Debby: Our whole neighborhood was surrounded by beautiful Forest Service land, and the riding stable put trails in.
00:22:47.052 --> 00:22:51.972
Debby: So I thought, okay, why don't I just try hiking with her on the trails?
00:22:52.032 --> 00:22:53.772
Debby: We were far away from cars.
00:22:54.092 --> 00:22:58.152
Debby: You know, chances are we wouldn't meet any other people or dogs or anything.
00:22:58.412 --> 00:23:02.592
Debby: So we started hiking every single morning for like an hour.
00:23:02.932 --> 00:23:11.232
Debby: And do you know that like probably that first week, Nora would come home, have breakfast, and flop down and take a nap?
00:23:11.612 --> 00:23:18.472
Debby: That was the first time she'd ever just took a nap and didn't follow me all over the house and wondered where I was.
00:23:18.592 --> 00:23:22.672
Debby: And you know, she finally started to calm down.
00:23:23.152 --> 00:23:24.772
Debby: So I thought, OK, this is good.
00:23:25.372 --> 00:23:30.912
Debby: Then we lived just outside of Sedona, Arizona, which is a big tourist town.
00:23:31.032 --> 00:23:32.412
Debby: Yes.
00:23:32.612 --> 00:23:38.892
Debby: There's a part of Sedona where all the tourist buses stop and it's called Uptown.
00:23:38.912 --> 00:23:41.832
Debby: So I thought, OK, why don't we just start walking there?
00:23:42.032 --> 00:23:43.552
Debby: You know, there's a lot of people.
00:23:43.932 --> 00:23:45.272
Debby: It was too much for her.
00:23:45.272 --> 00:23:47.612
Debby: I tried bringing her to a soccer game.
00:23:47.632 --> 00:23:48.452
Debby: That was too much.
00:23:48.472 --> 00:23:53.852
Debby: So I quickly realized I had to back off and let her kind of guide me.
00:23:54.232 --> 00:24:04.312
Debby: If she started to kind of freeze up and if I ran my hands down her sides and there was a lot of muscular tension, I just thought, OK, this is too much right now.
00:24:04.332 --> 00:24:09.272
Debby: We're going to have to go down the side street or we're going to have to go someplace else.
00:24:09.312 --> 00:24:11.372
Debby: And this is too overwhelming.
00:24:11.752 --> 00:24:13.132
Debby: I can tell you this, though.
00:24:13.552 --> 00:24:18.792
Debby: We started going to different soccer fields at the beginning of the soccer season.
00:24:19.192 --> 00:24:23.692
Debby: By the end of the soccer season, Nora knew where all the fields were.
00:24:24.072 --> 00:24:31.472
Debby: And when she realized that we were pulling up to another soccer field, by the end of the season, she was whirling around in the back seat.
00:24:31.812 --> 00:24:34.532
Debby: She couldn't wait to get out and say hello to everybody.
00:24:34.792 --> 00:24:37.672
Debby: But I just had to be patient.
00:24:37.872 --> 00:24:45.152
Debby: If she wasn't ready to go to the bleachers yet, I had to just hang out near them and let her just stand there.
00:24:45.692 --> 00:24:53.332
Debby: And then maybe next game, a little closer to the bleachers and then we can actually go up, maybe walk on the bleachers.
00:24:53.512 --> 00:24:57.992
Debby: It was well, well worth every single minute I put into it.
00:24:58.952 --> 00:24:59.732
Debby: She changed.
00:24:59.772 --> 00:25:02.292
Debby: She absolutely changed.
00:25:02.372 --> 00:25:03.652
Debby: She became a new dog.
00:25:03.832 --> 00:25:05.492
Beverly Isla: That's amazing that you put in that much.
00:25:06.092 --> 00:25:06.732
Beverly Isla: You're committed.
00:25:06.752 --> 00:25:07.372
Beverly Isla: You're committed.
00:25:09.512 --> 00:25:18.872
Beverly Isla: Oh, if only people were just that committed to the peeing journey of the dog, because exactly like some of them may need shorter time.
00:25:18.892 --> 00:25:20.692
Beverly Isla: Some of them may need longer time.
00:25:20.932 --> 00:25:25.852
Beverly Isla: The shortest I've seen was two weeks, but it seems like in your case, maybe months.
00:25:26.232 --> 00:25:39.712
Debby: I would say from start to finish, it was almost two years because it was really in the beginning, it was like three steps forward and four steps back.
00:25:39.712 --> 00:25:45.852
Debby: One day she would make a lot of progress, and we'd go back to the same place, and it was like starting all over again.
00:25:47.252 --> 00:25:50.332
Debby: Just keep doing it and keep doing it and keep doing it.
00:25:50.352 --> 00:25:55.852
Debby: A lot of trainers and behaviorists say that that is flooding.
00:25:56.252 --> 00:26:00.452
Debby: If the dog truly, truly is becoming that overwhelmed, stop.
00:26:02.192 --> 00:26:03.992
Debby: You don't want to cause more damage.
00:26:04.012 --> 00:26:06.212
Debby: You don't want to flood them or overwhelm them.
00:26:06.452 --> 00:26:10.352
Debby: But I believe it's important to help dogs face their fears.
00:26:10.652 --> 00:26:18.932
Debby: If my mother had given up on me and never brought me to kindergarten, I might never have gotten an education.
00:26:18.952 --> 00:26:22.412
Debby: I mean, I'm glad she hung in there with me, right?
00:26:25.092 --> 00:26:27.252
Debby: I knew this dog was smart.
00:26:27.532 --> 00:26:29.932
Debby: I knew she was sweet and loving.
00:26:31.172 --> 00:26:32.912
Debby: You know, and I just...
00:26:33.192 --> 00:26:37.812
Debby: It was like watching a flower bloom in slow motion, very slow motion.
00:26:38.152 --> 00:26:44.012
Debby: But eventually I could see this beautiful rose, all, you know, in full bloom.
00:26:44.612 --> 00:26:47.632
Debby: It took a long time, but it was worth waiting for.
00:26:47.972 --> 00:26:51.352
Debby: By the time, gosh, I actually trained...
00:26:51.712 --> 00:26:56.892
Debby: I got Nora to be able to walk by the side of a road when there were cars going by.
00:26:57.252 --> 00:26:57.752
Debby: Wow.
00:26:58.072 --> 00:26:58.492
Debby: Yeah.
00:26:58.692 --> 00:27:01.172
Debby: I mean, she would have done anything for me.
00:27:01.392 --> 00:27:03.752
Debby: We took a fun agility class together.
00:27:04.132 --> 00:27:06.552
Debby: That was one of the best bonding experiences.
00:27:06.572 --> 00:27:11.772
Debby: It was a great experience for her to meet other dogs and meet other people.
00:27:12.292 --> 00:27:14.232
Debby: She was very athletic anyway.
00:27:15.252 --> 00:27:18.972
Debby: You know, her nickname by the end of the class was Rocket Dog.
00:27:20.292 --> 00:27:22.812
Debby: Because she tried so hard, she was so fast.
00:27:23.672 --> 00:27:25.952
Debby: We all cheered each other's dogs on.
00:27:26.272 --> 00:27:33.892
Debby: It was fun agility for a lot of dogs is a wonderful, wonderful way to bond with your dog.
00:27:33.912 --> 00:27:35.172
Debby: I highly recommend it.
00:27:35.192 --> 00:27:37.112
Beverly Isla: Oh yeah, I support that sport.
00:27:37.332 --> 00:27:39.072
Beverly Isla: It looks fun, it sounds fun.
00:27:39.292 --> 00:27:40.832
Beverly Isla: I'm sure it's a lot of work.
00:27:40.932 --> 00:27:54.492
Debby: You know, I mean, once the dog gets the hang of, okay, this is a jump or this is a tunnel or whatever, once they kind of like get a few things down, it kind of triggers them to try more.
00:27:54.492 --> 00:27:56.912
Debby: And, oh, you want me to go up this A-frame?
00:27:56.932 --> 00:27:57.872
Debby: Okay, no problem.
00:27:57.932 --> 00:28:05.672
Debby: You know, they just, it sort of, I don't know, once they can do one or two things really easily, yeah, they love it.
00:28:05.752 --> 00:28:12.512
Debby: But there was this, it's funny, there was this one dog in our class, he was older, he may have had, I think he probably had arthritis or something.
00:28:12.912 --> 00:28:16.632
Debby: He would do everything in the course, but he would walk.
00:28:16.712 --> 00:28:19.012
Debby: He never ran at all.
00:28:19.632 --> 00:28:20.012
Debby: Never.
00:28:21.372 --> 00:28:22.072
Debby: But he did it.
00:28:22.392 --> 00:28:23.232
Debby: He still did it.
00:28:23.512 --> 00:28:24.872
Beverly Isla: That's awesome.
00:28:25.152 --> 00:28:26.052
Beverly Isla: I'd love to see that.
00:28:26.072 --> 00:28:27.232
Debby: It was so much fun.
00:28:27.252 --> 00:28:28.872
Debby: It was so much fun.
00:28:29.192 --> 00:28:29.612
Debby: Yeah.
00:28:29.812 --> 00:28:32.692
Beverly Isla: Now, before we wrap up, let's talk about your current projects.
00:28:32.712 --> 00:28:33.272
Beverly Isla: What are you up to?
00:28:33.292 --> 00:28:34.692
Beverly Isla: What are you working on?
00:28:35.012 --> 00:28:39.812
Debby: Well, I'm actually, I just recently submitted a book proposal.
00:28:40.052 --> 00:28:47.672
Debby: I've been writing a book about Nora and sort of what I think of as zooming in on her and then zooming back out.
00:28:47.912 --> 00:28:55.472
Debby: The title of the book, the working title of the book is called By the Grace of Dog, and it's lessons that Nora taught me.
00:28:55.672 --> 00:28:56.292
Debby: You know, she...
00:28:58.332 --> 00:28:58.932
Debby: Thank you.
00:28:59.352 --> 00:29:01.312
Debby: She was the light of my life.
00:29:01.512 --> 00:29:02.972
Debby: She changed my life.
00:29:03.252 --> 00:29:10.572
Debby: She helped me become a better person, and she's also helped me work with other dogs.
00:29:10.912 --> 00:29:13.352
Debby: I always think of her when I work with other dogs.
00:29:13.372 --> 00:29:33.232
Debby: So I just recently submitted the proposal to a literary agent in New York, and this is a woman I selected in part because she has dogs of her own, and she's competed in agility with them, and I thought, ooh, you know, maybe she'll be interested in this, and I hope she is, because I'd love to get this book out there.
00:29:33.252 --> 00:29:45.472
Debby: I would love to have people understand that when you are rehabilitating a dog, just be patient and understand that it will take them as long as it takes.
00:29:46.092 --> 00:29:51.392
Debby: Be supportive of them, always encourage them, always praise them when they get it.
00:29:51.812 --> 00:30:05.492
Debby: You know, I mean, and you can see massive changes in dogs in very little time, but you kind of have to put, again, put yourself in the dog's paws and feel what the world must feel like for them.
00:30:06.112 --> 00:30:07.992
Debby: How overwhelming is it for them?
00:30:08.512 --> 00:30:09.292
Beverly Isla: Absolutely.
00:30:09.732 --> 00:30:13.492
Beverly Isla: And it does take a little bit of effort to be self-aware and observe it.
00:30:13.512 --> 00:30:15.492
Beverly Isla: But Nora, you proved that you can.
00:30:15.792 --> 00:30:16.232
Debby: Yeah.
00:30:16.252 --> 00:30:19.232
Beverly Isla: And especially when you came from a position of having doubts.
00:30:19.632 --> 00:30:20.732
Beverly Isla: Yeah, you came a long way.
00:30:20.732 --> 00:30:21.352
Beverly Isla: That's awesome.
00:30:21.612 --> 00:30:22.512
Beverly Isla: I love hearing about that.
00:30:22.552 --> 00:30:38.112
Debby: You know, I think those three nights that Nora was missing in the desert, I remember saying, you know, God, if I ever get another chance to be with this dog, I promise I will never, you know, I will figure this out.
00:30:38.132 --> 00:30:39.812
Debby: Just give me another chance, please.
00:30:39.832 --> 00:30:43.732
Debby: You know, and, you know, it took a while, but I'm so grateful.
00:30:43.752 --> 00:30:47.312
Debby: I'm so grateful that she, that I was reunited with her.
00:30:47.692 --> 00:30:55.592
Debby: And I find it kind of, I mean, today I can kind of laugh about it, but she didn't try to find her way back to my home.
00:30:56.032 --> 00:30:58.612
Debby: She found her way back to the shelter.
00:30:58.692 --> 00:30:58.932
Beverly Isla: Right.
00:31:02.912 --> 00:31:03.452
Beverly Isla: Oh, wow.
00:31:04.572 --> 00:31:05.152
Beverly Isla: Oh, boy.
00:31:05.212 --> 00:31:06.152
Beverly Isla: Well, we are out of time.
00:31:06.592 --> 00:31:11.752
Beverly Isla: I really appreciate you, Debby, for being here and our show producer, Mark Winton, for making the show possible.
00:31:12.052 --> 00:31:16.872
Beverly Isla: And if people want to keep in touch with your book, what is the best way for them to do so?
00:31:17.212 --> 00:31:19.532
Beverly Isla: We'll put your email also on the show page.
00:31:19.912 --> 00:31:20.252
Debby: Yes.
00:31:20.512 --> 00:31:29.332
Debby: Probably if you're interested in doing a dog behavior consultation, please send me an email, which you mentioned is on your web page now.
00:31:29.592 --> 00:31:31.552
Debby: I'm happy to do this on Zoom.
00:31:31.572 --> 00:31:33.052
Debby: I can do it on the phone.
00:31:33.072 --> 00:31:35.352
Debby: I've done it once the pandemic started.
00:31:35.752 --> 00:31:38.512
Debby: And I will give your listeners a discount.
00:31:38.872 --> 00:31:45.272
Debby: So any questions you have, I've also done dog behavior classes, which I love doing.
00:31:45.372 --> 00:31:54.992
Debby: And now that we, you know, everybody does Zoom, I am more than happy to gather together a group of people, maybe five or six people for five or six weeks.
00:31:55.152 --> 00:31:59.552
Debby: And we can focus on anything that they need to work on with their dog.
00:32:00.612 --> 00:32:01.012
Beverly Isla: Awesome.
00:32:01.272 --> 00:32:02.252
Beverly Isla: Thank you for that offer.
00:32:02.432 --> 00:32:03.132
Beverly Isla: Very generous.
00:32:03.672 --> 00:32:10.512
Beverly Isla: And if you have any questions, comments or ideas for a show, please email me at Beverly at petliferadio.com.
00:32:10.652 --> 00:32:12.652
Beverly Isla: So until next time, spread animal compassion.
00:32:13.572 --> 00:32:19.572
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