Divine Connections
Is it possible that your relationship with the animal who shares, (or did share their life with you) is a Divine Connection? That is what this episode explores. Do animals have individual souls? Can they come back in another body? As Will Rogers said, “If there are no dogs in Heaven, I want to go where they went.” We can learn to communicate with animals when they are with us in physical form – and even after they have passed. This is so important to experience the continuity of consciousness. We discuss the difference in the way it feels to send a message versus receiving a message. It is so important to be able to learn the difference in how it feels to see-hear-or feel messages from animals. This episode includes some eye-opening experiences of animal communication that confirms that death is just a doorway to a deeper level of connection.
Listen to Episode #33 Now:
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Announcer: Welcome to The Human-Animal Connection show, where we believe we can communicate with all animals.
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Announcer: Join us as we explore the 33 principles and healing methods of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Announcer: As animal lovers, we know that you share our commitment to making the world a kinder place for all creatures.
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Announcer: Together, let's embrace the transformative healing power of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Michael Overlie: Hey, everyone.
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Michael Overlie: Welcome back to The Human-Animal Connection show.
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Michael Overlie: Such a fabulous episode for you today.
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Michael Overlie: And animals and spirituality and something much deeper.
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Michael Overlie: So I'm so excited.
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Michael Overlie: I'm your host, Michael Overlie.
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Michael Overlie: Genie Joseph, she's here to wow us all.
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Michael Overlie: And I can't wait to do this.
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Michael Overlie: Genie.
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Genie Joseph: Well, thank you.
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Genie Joseph: It's good to be here.
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Genie Joseph: The name of this episode is Divine Connections.
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Genie Joseph: So we've been looking at all 32 different ways in which humans and animals are connecting.
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Genie Joseph: But this is number 33, which is the spiritual side of it, which is how this relationship is more than just emotional.
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Genie Joseph: It's more than just physical.
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Genie Joseph: It's more than just mental.
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Genie Joseph: It's also spiritual.
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Genie Joseph: And that has to do with the fact that we are all animals ourselves.
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Genie Joseph: And animals and ourselves are basically, there's a level at which we are united.
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Genie Joseph: We are all one.
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Genie Joseph: And so this principle explores that aspect of our relationship.
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Genie Joseph: So we're kind of going beyond the model of pet ownership and moving into pet partnership or a divine connection with animals.
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Genie Joseph: So that's what we're up to today.
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Michael Overlie: I love it.
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Michael Overlie: I had mentioned before we started recording that I had actually had this conversation around the term or phrase ownership a number of times recently.
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Michael Overlie: I think more and more people are understanding that it's not a possession.
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Michael Overlie: Their dog is not this piece of property to them anymore.
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Michael Overlie: It's like, oh, no, they're literally part of this other side of me, this other piece of me.
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Michael Overlie: And they're a sentient being.
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Michael Overlie: They're a divine being.
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Michael Overlie: They're a creation of God, however you want to put it, and realizing that it's not something to just be dismissed.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: And we've gone through, as human beings, lots of different cycles of relationships with animals, treating them as beasts of burden and having them not living in the same house as us.
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Genie Joseph: And there's been a lot of different stages.
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Genie Joseph: So I think we're in, or we're approaching, or some of us are in, some of us are approaching this new stage of kind of equals.
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Genie Joseph: What would it be like to see our animals as equals?
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Genie Joseph: Now, that doesn't mean that we're equal in every way.
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Genie Joseph: They're superior in some ways, and we have some areas that we can balance our checkbook in a way that they can't.
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Genie Joseph: But I don't know that we can always do that, but you know what I mean.
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Genie Joseph: We have things that we have some mastery over, and they have other things that they have mastery over, as does every species.
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Genie Joseph: And so having that perspective changes the way we're willing to consider how animals should be treated in our world.
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Genie Joseph: And so that's why it's not just a semantic thing.
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Genie Joseph: We're not just, you know, picking on the words, pet ownership.
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Genie Joseph: We're saying, hey, wait a minute, we need to change not just the language, but our thoughts, our feelings, our behaviors, our actions.
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Genie Joseph: And that's why we're exploring this topic.
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Genie Joseph: We really want people to kind of look beyond that.
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Genie Joseph: And remember Will Rogers?
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Michael Overlie: Yeah, yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Well, he had a saying, he said, if there are no dogs in heaven, I want to go where they went.
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Genie Joseph: And the moral of the story is, these are the nice creatures.
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Genie Joseph: I want to hang out with the nice ones, the ones that are loving and kind and non-judgmental and loyal and supportive and playful and all this good stuff.
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Genie Joseph: And there's so much that dogs or any animals bring into our life.
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Genie Joseph: And we need to be grateful and also cognizant that they are bringing a lot more to the table than we give them credit for.
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Michael Overlie: That's a massive point.
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Michael Overlie: But that's why I love your work so much, is you're introducing all these pieces and points of, like, what, really?
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Genie Joseph: Is that possible?
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Michael Overlie: It's creating curiosity in people's minds that, what, my dog?
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, right.
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Michael Overlie: Yeah, your dog, too.
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Genie Joseph: Your dog, yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Your dog, whatever behavior there is.
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Genie Joseph: We all have things that we like and don't like in behaviors, but the fact is that the potential for going beyond this notion of pet parent, pet ownership, somehow we're in this hierarchal relationship where we have the goods and they're just kind of, I don't know.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, there was a time when it was not believed that animals had emotions or that they felt pain, and it was just around 150 years ago where they would do operations on dogs without any anesthesia because they didn't think they had any pain.
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Genie Joseph: Humans have not done such a great job when it comes to animals.
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Genie Joseph: We really need to make up for that.
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Genie Joseph: We really need to say, hey, okay, we got to do better.
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Genie Joseph: And that's across the board.
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Genie Joseph: We won't get into all the horrors we did last episode about factory farms and fish farms and places where animals don't get to move at all.
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Genie Joseph: Just one thing I want to tell you about eggs.
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Genie Joseph: I wish I had the numbers, but eggs that are raised at free-range hens that can eat grass, get out in the sunshine, have some degree of normalcy, their eggs have higher levels of vitamins and nutrients than eggs that are fed grain and never see the light of sun and are trapped in a location.
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Genie Joseph: It may cost a little more to buy those pasture-free eggs, free-range eggs, but it's worth it because you're getting something like twice the vitamin level, the nutrient level, and omegas in the eggs.
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Genie Joseph: So pasture-raised eggs are much healthier for dogs.
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Genie Joseph: I'm doing a lot of research now on cooking for dogs and learning about the different levels, and eggs are way high up on the chart if they're pasture-raised in terms of their potential for health-giving nutrients.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Michael Overlie: Well, the chickens are actually being chickens.
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Michael Overlie: They're eating bugs and digging in the dirt.
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Michael Overlie: There's wonderful bacteria just in the dirt, right?
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Michael Overlie: So they're ingesting that.
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Michael Overlie: So yeah, that's what they should be doing.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: And the thing to think about, I mean, it's not always possible to buy organic food for your dog, but whenever possible, because basically whatever you're feeding your dog, let's say if you have a chicken that was raised on a factory farm, they never got those bugs, they never got the bacteria, and they got antibiotics, and they got crappy feed that they feed them.
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Genie Joseph: And so your dog is now eating the crappy meat product of an animal that has been raised in captivity and without a good diet and without sunshine, vitamin D.
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Genie Joseph: And dogs actually can't create vitamin D themselves, like they can't go out in the sun and create it, so we need to make sure that they get good sources of vitamin D.
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Genie Joseph: And so the more the food you're feeding them is wholesome and healthy, the more likely they're able to get that nutrient.
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Genie Joseph: Because in the commercial pet food industry, because they have to heat the products so intensely, they strip them of all the natural nutrients, and then they have to replace them, so they put synthetic vitamins, which are mostly made in China.
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Genie Joseph: And they don't necessarily have the same benefit.
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Genie Joseph: They might have some benefit, but not the full benefit of vitamins that come from natural sources from the whole food.
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Genie Joseph: So I got a little off topic there, but I just wanted to tell you that.
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Michael Overlie: More of that later.
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Genie Joseph: More of that later, that'll be coming.
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Genie Joseph: The next couple months, we'll be doing a whole series on how you can kind of get started.
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Genie Joseph: And you know what's excited about, and then we'll go back to our regular topic, but I just want to tell you what's exciting is that what I'm learning is that you don't have to do 100%.
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Genie Joseph: You don't have to do 100% organic or 100% homemade every day.
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Genie Joseph: You could do 20% of homemade food.
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Genie Joseph: You could do 50% homemade food, and it would still have a major positive benefit for your dog.
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Genie Joseph: So that's, I think, what's exciting.
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Genie Joseph: So you'll be hearing more about that from us as we progress here.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So going back to this notion of divine connections, one of the things we explore in this chapter in our book, The Human-Animal Connection, which is now on audio, by the way.
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Genie Joseph: You can hear the audio.
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Genie Joseph: The book is available on audio.
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Genie Joseph: But one of the things we talk about there is, is reincarnation real?
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Genie Joseph: Do animals come back?
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Genie Joseph: And I think a lot of people who had the experience of losing a pet really asked that question, you know, is this animal going to come back?
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Genie Joseph: And I think everybody should explore that for themselves.
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Genie Joseph: I don't want to tell anybody what I think.
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Genie Joseph: It's a really interesting idea.
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Genie Joseph: What are your thoughts on that, Michael?
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Genie Joseph: Do you think that animals have more than one lifetime?
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Genie Joseph: Do you think that there's a continuity of consciousness that Darby, for example, your dog who passed, might come back at some point or whatever?
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Michael Overlie: What do you think?
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Michael Overlie: I think Darby came back, or was actually Sage that came back.
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Michael Overlie: Sage was my first dog, and he's the one that basically helped me stay alive when I was a young teen.
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Michael Overlie: I think Darby was a reincarnation of Sage, and he's like, now we can really get into some deep stuff.
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Genie Joseph: Now you're wiser.
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Genie Joseph: This is one possibility for people to consider, or maybe you believe it already, that there is more than one lifetime that we have, that our animals have.
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Genie Joseph: It doesn't mean that your dog is going to come back every time.
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Genie Joseph: It's kind of rare, but it seems to happen.
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Genie Joseph: And there's one story.
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Genie Joseph: I wish I could remember now who told me this, but there's a story about a woman who had a parrot, and the parrot was able to communicate.
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Genie Joseph: And the parrot explained that he had, I forget if the parrot was a she or he, but the parrot had had a previous lifetime as a Tibetan monk, that he was a very enlightened being, and chose to come back as a parrot because he felt that people couldn't understand, the human-to-human communication wasn't effective enough, and he wanted to experience what it was like to talk to the world as a parrot.
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Genie Joseph: So it's just so interesting to hear these stories.
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Genie Joseph: And I guess he had a number, lots of information that was very authentic, that this parrot in terms of this lifetime couldn't have known.
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Genie Joseph: And there's lots of books that have stories like this.
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Genie Joseph: So unless everybody's making it up, it might be true.
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Michael Overlie: Exactly.
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Michael Overlie: Well, I think the old model of 26,000 years ago, we started to domesticate the wolf.
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Michael Overlie: I have a different spin on that.
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Michael Overlie: I think the wolves were standing up on a cliff and looking at us, fumbling and bumbling and making a mess of ourselves.
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Michael Overlie: And I think they made an agreement.
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Michael Overlie: Some of them stayed wild and some of them came to help.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, I think that's definitely in the Native traditions.
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Genie Joseph: They talk about that, that there was a point where there was a split, that some of the wolf dogs or the wolves stayed in the wild and some chose to come and be helping us humans.
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Genie Joseph: So yeah, there's definitely that tradition in certain cultures.
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Genie Joseph: So yeah, it's interesting.
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Genie Joseph: And I just heard this one fun story from an animal communicator in Switzerland.
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Genie Joseph: Her name is Paloma, and she is an animal communicator.
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Genie Joseph: And there was a rabbit that she wanted to talk to, and she wanted to practice with this rabbit.
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Genie Joseph: And she went to talk to the rabbit, and the rabbit said, I'm a philosopher.
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Genie Joseph: You're not at my level.
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Genie Joseph: Come back when you've learned more.
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Genie Joseph: And so she went away and did some studies, did some work, came back six months later, same exact answer.
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Genie Joseph: A year later, same exact answer.
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Genie Joseph: Two years later, she comes back, and the rabbit says, okay, we're going to write a book together.
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Genie Joseph: So they're writing a book together.
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Michael Overlie: I love it.
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Genie Joseph: It's such a great story.
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Genie Joseph: It's just, you know, this rabbit, I'm a philosopher.
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Genie Joseph: I'm above your level.
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Genie Joseph: You're not at my level.
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Genie Joseph: You wouldn't understand.
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Genie Joseph: You know, and it's interesting, because we sometimes assume that animals are going to be communicating at a lower level than us humans.
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Genie Joseph: And then we go and we have these very profound interactions that it's like sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the Buddha or whoever.
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Genie Joseph: The level of profoundness and awareness and compassion is sometimes staggering.
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Genie Joseph: And not in all cases.
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Genie Joseph: It's the same thing with humans.
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Genie Joseph: It's like you can have human conversations with people that are very superficial or very whatever.
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Genie Joseph: They're locked in their own whatever thinking patterns.
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Genie Joseph: And then you can have conversations with people who are aware.
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Genie Joseph: And it's very exciting.
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Genie Joseph: So there's a range with animals.
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Genie Joseph: Just because they're animals, they're not on some super high level or on some other low level or high level.
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Genie Joseph: Everybody's at different levels wherever they are in their process journey.
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Genie Joseph: And from the point of view of reincarnation, we're just going to keep going until we've got it.
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Genie Joseph: And then maybe we'll say, okay, had enough of that.
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Genie Joseph: But it's like, I don't know, do you think that animals, well, some people think that animals reincarnate as animals and humans reincarnate as humans, but they don't think that they cross over.
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Genie Joseph: Like humans don't go back and be an animal like this parrot did.
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Genie Joseph: You know, I don't know.
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Genie Joseph: What are your thoughts about that?
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Michael Overlie: I think when you remove us from whatever this shell or vessel is, we're something completely different, you know, as a soul.
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Michael Overlie: And I think we can choose to have an experience that we desire in order to continue our growth and expansion.
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Michael Overlie: So I can come back as a mouse if I think that would serve me, right?
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Michael Overlie: So no, I don't think there's any hard and fast rules for anything anymore, not after what I've experienced.
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Genie Joseph: Right, right, right.
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Genie Joseph: Exactly.
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Genie Joseph: So it's just really something interesting to explore.
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Genie Joseph: Maybe we don't know the answers, but I think that living with the question is a fruitful thing to do, to just say, well, what if?
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Genie Joseph: What if this dog that's laying at my feet, this crazy foster dog that we have, sometimes she looks at you and it's just like, oh my God, what is she saying?
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Genie Joseph: What is she seeing?
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Genie Joseph: It's so profound.
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Genie Joseph: And other times, it's like, she's just a crazy dog chewing on my shoe.
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Genie Joseph: And that's how it is with us humans too.
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Genie Joseph: Sometimes we can have these very profound moments of wisdom, understanding, awe, gratitude, compassion, and the next minute we're like, blah, whatever, blah, blah, blah, something is bothering us, and we're all twisted up in it.
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Genie Joseph: And so that's kind of the truth of experience, I guess.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, maybe there's some point where you get beyond all that.
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Genie Joseph: I haven't gotten there, so I don't know.
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Michael Overlie: I don't know what the answer is to that after we leave this plane this time, but I'd like to think it can be anything.
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Genie Joseph: It could.
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Genie Joseph: It could.
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Genie Joseph: Well, on that note, why don't we take a short break, and we'll come back and explore Divine Connections further.
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Announcer: Hey, friends, if you like what you're hearing and want to learn more, check out Dr.
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Announcer: Joseph's book, The Human-Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and Ourselves.
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Announcer: Or visit the website, thehumananimalconnection.org, to book an online consultation.
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Announcer: Thank you for loving animals.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.540
Announcer: Now back to the show.
00:16:00.740 --> 00:16:03.880
Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
00:16:09.873 --> 00:16:13.453
Michael Overlie: Hey, folks, welcome back to The Human-Animal Connection Show.
00:16:13.693 --> 00:16:22.453
Michael Overlie: We were talking about some fun and amazing things before, and I'm still cracking up about the rabbit telling Paloma that I'm a philosopher.
00:16:23.773 --> 00:16:24.953
Genie Joseph: You're not at my level.
00:16:26.553 --> 00:16:27.653
Michael Overlie: Come back when you're ready.
00:16:27.833 --> 00:16:28.173
Genie Joseph: Yes.
00:16:32.253 --> 00:16:32.693
Genie Joseph: I know.
00:16:33.273 --> 00:16:37.093
Genie Joseph: Yeah, I told you about that mouse in the shelter that I had a very profound connection with.
00:16:37.293 --> 00:16:43.353
Genie Joseph: You just never know who's going to show you something that's just going to rock your world if you're willing.
00:16:44.453 --> 00:16:47.393
Michael Overlie: Well, I told you about the horse I was working with.
00:16:47.413 --> 00:16:48.393
Michael Overlie: The horses, right?
00:16:48.413 --> 00:16:49.293
Michael Overlie: There was two of them over there.
00:16:49.313 --> 00:16:53.893
Michael Overlie: And the one, Teddy, he's like, no, just go away for now.
00:16:55.653 --> 00:17:00.253
Michael Overlie: And the other horse, Penny, she's like, come here, come here, love me.
00:17:01.293 --> 00:17:02.173
Michael Overlie: That was hilarious.
00:17:02.293 --> 00:17:03.433
Michael Overlie: I was like, but I'm a mighty human.
00:17:05.533 --> 00:17:08.053
Genie Joseph: Right, don't you want my presence?
00:17:10.173 --> 00:17:10.893
Genie Joseph: Very funny.
00:17:11.633 --> 00:17:15.613
Genie Joseph: Well, it's so good to just ask these questions.
00:17:15.613 --> 00:17:21.293
Genie Joseph: Even if we don't have the answers, I don't know that we're going to get the answers, or I can't give the answer to somebody else.
00:17:21.313 --> 00:17:24.673
Genie Joseph: But I could just say, hey, see what you think.
00:17:24.693 --> 00:17:27.613
Genie Joseph: Feel it out, explore it, consider it, try it on for a month.
00:17:28.213 --> 00:17:37.033
Genie Joseph: Consider the possibility that that animal that shares their life with you has had other lives and will have other lives beyond the one that they have with you right now.
00:17:37.533 --> 00:17:42.393
Genie Joseph: And what does that mean in terms of the potential of exploring that relationship?
00:17:42.393 --> 00:17:49.353
Genie Joseph: And is there a way that you could say, hey, I want to keep that communication channel open if you do decide to leave?
00:17:49.373 --> 00:17:55.513
Genie Joseph: Because one of the issues with having animals share our lives is they're probably going to leave before we do.
00:17:55.533 --> 00:17:57.113
Genie Joseph: I mean, sometimes the humans leave first.
00:17:57.153 --> 00:18:00.913
Genie Joseph: In Lulu's case, her person died, the one that we're fostering.
00:18:01.293 --> 00:18:07.973
Genie Joseph: That's part of why she has such separation anxiety, is that person died in her presence, and she was stuck in the house with a dead person.
00:18:08.813 --> 00:18:14.413
Genie Joseph: So these are tough things that happen, and she has those memories.
00:18:14.433 --> 00:18:20.313
Genie Joseph: So those memories haunt her when I think that I'm going to leave, just even thinking about leaving.
00:18:21.093 --> 00:18:27.973
Genie Joseph: But anyway, one of the things I want to talk about in The Human-Animal Connection, our first principle has to do with the principle of goodness.
00:18:28.653 --> 00:18:34.093
Genie Joseph: And what this means is that beyond behavior, like there are behaviors that Lulu does that I don't like.
00:18:34.353 --> 00:18:45.473
Genie Joseph: There are things that she does that you could call them bad behaviors, but I have to keep remembering who she is, what she's come from, and that she's a good dog, even when she's doing behaviors that I don't like.
00:18:45.933 --> 00:18:49.813
Genie Joseph: So behaviors can be good or bad, but the dog is still good.
00:18:50.273 --> 00:18:55.973
Genie Joseph: And that perspective changes, helps me to continue to refine my patience.
00:18:55.993 --> 00:18:59.453
Genie Joseph: I have to continually refine it, because she does things that I definitely don't like.
00:18:59.893 --> 00:19:18.913
Genie Joseph: But when she does that, it's an opportunity for me to get bigger, bigger of heart, bigger of compassion, and to expand my sense of goodness, so that goodness includes even her chewing my shoe, even her chewing apart a flower pot, even her jumping up on the kitchen table.
00:19:20.913 --> 00:19:23.773
Genie Joseph: She likes when I leave the house, so she can watch me leave.
00:19:23.793 --> 00:19:25.293
Genie Joseph: She jumps up on the kitchen table.
00:19:25.813 --> 00:19:28.433
Genie Joseph: So these are things that I don't like, his behaviors.
00:19:28.833 --> 00:19:31.013
Genie Joseph: But I know that she's a good dog.
00:19:31.713 --> 00:19:36.053
Genie Joseph: When I'm in that space of knowing her goodness, feeling her goodness, it gets better.
00:19:36.073 --> 00:19:37.853
Genie Joseph: These behaviors begin to soften.
00:19:38.093 --> 00:19:40.733
Genie Joseph: They haven't gone away yet, but they soften.
00:19:41.293 --> 00:19:47.333
Genie Joseph: And the other thing that softens is my reaction to her, because I can say, Lolo, get down.
00:19:47.353 --> 00:19:50.633
Genie Joseph: I don't have to turn into Godzilla just because she's turned into Godzilla.
00:19:52.253 --> 00:19:53.833
Genie Joseph: So we're working it out.
00:19:53.853 --> 00:19:56.773
Genie Joseph: She's come to teach us quite a bit here.
00:19:57.533 --> 00:19:58.453
Michael Overlie: Well, of course.
00:19:58.753 --> 00:20:04.213
Michael Overlie: We talked a little bit about this as well before we started today.
00:20:06.193 --> 00:20:18.073
Michael Overlie: My friend Tommy Hartley did this presentation, and he was helping these other people who are veterans in the dog world understand that you're not going to be able to mold this dog into whatever it is you think you want.
00:20:19.793 --> 00:20:31.893
Michael Overlie: And expanding our level of patience, our level of acceptance, like, you know, I'm going to give this dog everything I've got, but she may not meet my expectation of what that is.
00:20:32.173 --> 00:20:46.033
Michael Overlie: And I think it's just really important for people to understand that, you know, especially when we're talking about rescue animals, maybe even traumatized, whatever, you do the best you can, and you provide them with as much love as you can.
00:20:47.093 --> 00:20:48.493
Michael Overlie: And that's good enough.
00:20:49.073 --> 00:20:50.973
Genie Joseph: Yeah, and it's good enough.
00:20:51.253 --> 00:20:56.673
Genie Joseph: And also the lesson is that, like your friend Tommy was saying, sometimes it's not enough to change.
00:20:56.693 --> 00:21:06.253
Genie Joseph: I mean, I would love, you know, since we're in the work of doing therapy dog work, going into classrooms with our program, canines teach compassion, and I have Sophia, who's a magnificent therapy dog.
00:21:06.273 --> 00:21:11.093
Genie Joseph: And although she wasn't at first, it took three years, you know, she was a feral dog and quite scary.
00:21:12.353 --> 00:21:18.833
Genie Joseph: But Lulu, you know, I know that the teenagers that if I brought her into class, they would love her.
00:21:18.853 --> 00:21:20.033
Genie Joseph: I mean, her hair is a mess.
00:21:20.053 --> 00:21:20.853
Genie Joseph: They can brush her.
00:21:20.873 --> 00:21:21.533
Genie Joseph: It's very fun.
00:21:21.913 --> 00:21:23.753
Genie Joseph: But she's too scared.
00:21:23.773 --> 00:21:25.473
Genie Joseph: She would turn into Godzilla.
00:21:25.973 --> 00:21:27.873
Genie Joseph: And I may never be able to bring her there.
00:21:27.893 --> 00:21:31.673
Genie Joseph: You know, like my goal, oh, I want another therapy dog, you know, if I was going to.
00:21:32.033 --> 00:21:33.293
Genie Joseph: But she may not.
00:21:33.593 --> 00:21:42.193
Genie Joseph: And so that's part of really the process is seeing the dog for who they really are instead of like your friend said, who you want them to be.
00:21:42.673 --> 00:21:43.753
Genie Joseph: They may or may not.
00:21:44.133 --> 00:21:49.693
Genie Joseph: And it's a little bit humbling because we have all these powerful methods and we've done wonderful work with Lulu.
00:21:49.713 --> 00:21:50.893
Genie Joseph: I mean, she's amazing, you know.
00:21:51.193 --> 00:21:55.813
Genie Joseph: So it's not like she's not making progress, but bottom line is sometimes love is not enough.
00:21:56.133 --> 00:21:57.853
Genie Joseph: You know, she's got neurological issues.
00:21:57.873 --> 00:22:00.193
Genie Joseph: I think, you know, sometimes she will get stuck.
00:22:00.213 --> 00:22:03.693
Genie Joseph: She'll get frozen and just sort of stare for a moment, and then she comes out of it.
00:22:03.713 --> 00:22:06.953
Genie Joseph: So she's got some issues that I may not be able to fix.
00:22:07.453 --> 00:22:09.173
Genie Joseph: So that's what happens.
00:22:09.353 --> 00:22:16.833
Michael Overlie: So how can you just give yourself and her a break and be open to, hey, maybe this is as good as it gets.
00:22:16.853 --> 00:22:18.493
Michael Overlie: And if it gets better, fantastic.
00:22:20.093 --> 00:22:34.713
Genie Joseph: Yeah, you know, okay, I think we all have this fantasy dog in our mind, or, you know, like Prince Charming or the Princess, or, you know, these archetypes of what we hope will be the dog that we're going to adopt from the shelter or whatever.
00:22:35.073 --> 00:22:37.573
Genie Joseph: And then we bring home the dog and find out who the dog is.
00:22:38.833 --> 00:22:41.253
Genie Joseph: And it's different.
00:22:41.353 --> 00:22:47.573
Michael Overlie: I've ended up with Snoopy, Cujo, you know, Scooby-Doo.
00:22:48.533 --> 00:22:48.933
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:22:49.193 --> 00:22:52.013
Michael Overlie: And none of them are what I thought I was going to get.
00:22:52.233 --> 00:22:53.393
Genie Joseph: Right, exactly.
00:22:53.413 --> 00:22:54.213
Genie Joseph: Yeah, it was fun.
00:22:54.593 --> 00:22:57.313
Genie Joseph: Yeah, and one of the things about Lulu, she's very willful.
00:22:57.713 --> 00:22:59.633
Genie Joseph: She's not interested in obedience.
00:22:59.633 --> 00:23:02.133
Genie Joseph: I mean, like, that's not her deal.
00:23:02.253 --> 00:23:06.053
Genie Joseph: You know, like, I say, I don't want to say it now, but Lulu, come.
00:23:06.073 --> 00:23:07.113
Genie Joseph: You know, I don't want to say it too loud.
00:23:07.313 --> 00:23:08.613
Genie Joseph: But she's like, no.
00:23:10.933 --> 00:23:11.633
Genie Joseph: You know what I mean?
00:23:11.653 --> 00:23:13.753
Genie Joseph: It's just like, that's not her deal.
00:23:13.953 --> 00:23:17.073
Genie Joseph: And she's not here to perform in that way.
00:23:17.073 --> 00:23:21.493
Genie Joseph: And of course, I'm used to being able to train therapy dogs, and it's all about.
00:23:21.873 --> 00:23:30.653
Genie Joseph: They, you know, all you have to do is whisper the command, not the command, the cue, and they will, because they want to, please, you know, and Lulu's like, no.
00:23:33.973 --> 00:23:37.713
Genie Joseph: So, yeah, life, life with a dog, life with a dog.
00:23:37.773 --> 00:23:39.953
Michael Overlie: But the dog you need, right?
00:23:39.973 --> 00:23:41.353
Michael Overlie: Not the dog you think you want.
00:23:41.513 --> 00:23:42.153
Genie Joseph: Exactly.
00:23:42.173 --> 00:23:42.373
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:23:42.393 --> 00:23:48.913
Genie Joseph: So I'm, there's a lot of issues that, that relate to my life, you know, that, that, yeah.
00:23:49.093 --> 00:23:50.153
Genie Joseph: So we're in it together.
00:23:50.173 --> 00:23:51.013
Genie Joseph: We're in it together.
00:23:51.273 --> 00:23:51.693
Michael Overlie: Got it.
00:23:52.033 --> 00:23:52.393
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:23:53.293 --> 00:23:57.933
Genie Joseph: So, so, you know, I, you know, I was just thinking about, remember Charlotte's Web?
00:23:57.953 --> 00:23:59.113
Genie Joseph: Did you ever read that as a child?
00:24:00.853 --> 00:24:08.753
Genie Joseph: So it's, remember when the spider, you know, Wilbur was going to be eaten, right?
00:24:08.773 --> 00:24:09.873
Genie Joseph: The pig was going to be eaten.
00:24:10.453 --> 00:24:13.533
Genie Joseph: And they asked Charlotte to help and put something in her Web.
00:24:14.133 --> 00:24:23.733
Genie Joseph: And she's spun the words, some pig, you know, and that was enough to make the farmer go, wait a minute, this is not a pig we should eat.
00:24:23.793 --> 00:24:26.173
Genie Joseph: This is a pig we should let live.
00:24:26.693 --> 00:24:40.073
Genie Joseph: And you never know what it is that's going to wake people up, you know, what message it is, because we know we can't preach, because preaching like, eat your vegetables, don't eat animals, you know, all these things, you know, we can't tell people what to do.
00:24:40.493 --> 00:24:44.353
Genie Joseph: So it's always like, what is it that's going to wake people up?
00:24:44.813 --> 00:24:47.753
Genie Joseph: And like that spider putting the two words, some pig.
00:24:49.213 --> 00:24:51.613
Genie Joseph: And that was enough to make the farmer go, hmm.
00:24:51.853 --> 00:24:52.253
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:24:52.493 --> 00:24:59.293
Michael Overlie: And that's the point, right, is how do we get our message across, but in a way that creates curiosity.
00:25:00.093 --> 00:25:03.593
Michael Overlie: Because you're standing on the podium dictating how people live their lives.
00:25:04.013 --> 00:25:04.293
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:04.313 --> 00:25:05.533
Michael Overlie: Not going to go well, right?
00:25:05.553 --> 00:25:06.313
Genie Joseph: Not going to go well.
00:25:06.713 --> 00:25:07.033
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:07.053 --> 00:25:08.473
Michael Overlie: Curiosity is so powerful.
00:25:08.733 --> 00:25:09.693
Genie Joseph: It's so powerful.
00:25:09.753 --> 00:25:15.353
Genie Joseph: And just to recognize that everybody needs to come to choices on their own, you know.
00:25:15.373 --> 00:25:21.233
Genie Joseph: So how can we lead them to that point where they are curious about a different choice?
00:25:22.073 --> 00:25:38.933
Genie Joseph: And I guess that's what our message is with this Divine Connections, is whether or not you currently have a belief system that includes animals being conscious or continuity of consciousness over multiple lifetimes or multiple lifetimes in general, what would it be like to consider that as a possibility?
00:25:39.333 --> 00:25:44.473
Genie Joseph: And that maybe the animal who shares your life, it's not the first time you've met if it's an important relationship.
00:25:45.013 --> 00:25:46.153
Genie Joseph: And what does that mean?
00:25:46.633 --> 00:25:47.893
Genie Joseph: What does that mean for the future?
00:25:48.213 --> 00:25:49.413
Genie Joseph: What does that mean for the present?
00:25:49.673 --> 00:25:49.993
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:50.253 --> 00:25:51.713
Michael Overlie: Yeah, that's fantastic.
00:25:51.893 --> 00:25:52.353
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:52.713 --> 00:25:53.153
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:25:53.853 --> 00:26:00.933
Genie Joseph: So I think that once we start opening that, we also open the possibility of animal communication.
00:26:02.073 --> 00:26:05.133
Genie Joseph: What are the ways that animals want to communicate with us?
00:26:05.613 --> 00:26:09.433
Genie Joseph: Like Lulu, sometimes she'll just stare at you, stare at me, right?
00:26:09.453 --> 00:26:15.293
Genie Joseph: She'll just give me this like, look, and it's a little unnerving, because I don't always know what she's saying.
00:26:15.313 --> 00:26:17.293
Genie Joseph: It's not clear what she wants.
00:26:19.993 --> 00:26:21.413
Genie Joseph: And I have to work at this.
00:26:21.433 --> 00:26:26.333
Genie Joseph: I have to get better, because I know that she would like to say something, and I haven't...
00:26:26.613 --> 00:26:27.413
Genie Joseph: Sometimes I hear it.
00:26:27.433 --> 00:26:32.113
Genie Joseph: I mean, I'm not saying I never hear her, but there's some times where I don't hear her.
00:26:32.113 --> 00:26:34.373
Genie Joseph: I can't hear her, and I want to.
00:26:34.853 --> 00:26:35.513
Michael Overlie: I get that.
00:26:35.513 --> 00:26:41.293
Michael Overlie: I think it's more difficult when it's your own animal, in my opinion, because you're too close.
00:26:43.013 --> 00:26:44.653
Michael Overlie: Maybe you hear something you don't want to hear.
00:26:44.873 --> 00:26:45.813
Genie Joseph: Right, exactly.
00:26:46.413 --> 00:26:47.993
Michael Overlie: Even Dana is picking up on things.
00:26:48.013 --> 00:26:52.373
Michael Overlie: Now, I never make a point of it, but I go, wow, that's really interesting.
00:26:53.153 --> 00:26:59.953
Michael Overlie: We'll do something with Indigo, and she'll give you this look, and we'll look at each other like, did you hear up ears?
00:26:59.973 --> 00:27:00.873
Michael Overlie: Yeah, I heard up ears.
00:27:03.433 --> 00:27:17.653
Michael Overlie: So it's just interesting watching her pick up on these messages that are coming across, and Indigo is very expressive, which is fantastic, because I couldn't convince Dana that she's actually hearing messages from Indigo.
00:27:17.673 --> 00:27:20.373
Michael Overlie: She goes, did you see the look?
00:27:20.453 --> 00:27:21.373
Michael Overlie: I'm like, oh yeah.
00:27:21.413 --> 00:27:23.013
Genie Joseph: Yes, exactly.
00:27:24.053 --> 00:27:33.993
Genie Joseph: So I really believe the animals are communicating all the time, and it's just sometimes we're listening or watching or paying attention, and sometimes we're not, just like with humans, same thing.
00:27:34.013 --> 00:27:40.113
Genie Joseph: Sometimes we're attending to another person, and sometimes the lights are on, but we're not home.
00:27:40.593 --> 00:27:56.753
Genie Joseph: So yeah, well, I hope people will consider the possibility of the relationship with the animals who share their lives as being a divine relationship and the possibility of going deeper with the divine connection and to just explore that, whatever that feels like to them.
00:27:56.773 --> 00:27:59.473
Genie Joseph: It doesn't have to be any one specific thing.
00:27:59.493 --> 00:28:00.933
Genie Joseph: It's not like we have all the answers.
00:28:00.953 --> 00:28:06.973
Genie Joseph: It's just what do you experience when you open that possibility up for yourself and for your animal?
00:28:07.393 --> 00:28:17.393
Genie Joseph: And we'd love to hear your thoughts, so please let us know what happens when you take on the question of the divine connection between humans and animals.
00:28:17.973 --> 00:28:19.773
Michael Overlie: Yeah, and open it further.
00:28:19.793 --> 00:28:22.793
Michael Overlie: It might be just a sensation or a feeling.
00:28:22.813 --> 00:28:24.453
Michael Overlie: You may not hear words, right?
00:28:24.853 --> 00:28:27.413
Michael Overlie: It's just like, oh, what is that?
00:28:27.733 --> 00:28:29.473
Genie Joseph: Right, exactly.
00:28:29.473 --> 00:28:32.353
Genie Joseph: And in the beginning, you may or may not be right.
00:28:32.553 --> 00:28:43.533
Genie Joseph: It could be your projections, but as you get better at it, you'll begin to really tell the difference between what is a message, you might say, from the animal to you and what is just your own thoughts, your own psyche.
00:28:43.553 --> 00:28:49.873
Genie Joseph: So by paying attention, you can feel the difference, that there's a difference between receiving a message and just thinking.
00:28:50.273 --> 00:28:53.493
Genie Joseph: So over time, you'll feel the quality of difference.
00:28:53.513 --> 00:29:03.933
Genie Joseph: Like, my thoughts have a certain syntax, grammar, subject, verb, adjective, whatever, but animals will often give you the whole experience in a moment.
00:29:04.193 --> 00:29:04.793
Genie Joseph: Do you know what I mean?
00:29:04.813 --> 00:29:08.873
Genie Joseph: So that's something that you can feel the difference between those two kinds of communication.
00:29:09.113 --> 00:29:09.433
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:29:10.333 --> 00:29:21.233
Genie Joseph: Well, I want to thank you, Michael, for being a wonderful host for these 33 episodes introducing the world to the book, The Human-Animal Connection, which you can read, and you can also listen to it, since it's an audio version.
00:29:21.853 --> 00:29:27.893
Genie Joseph: And hopefully you've enjoyed these podcasts, and we're going to begin a new series where we'll be interviewing some other people.
00:29:27.913 --> 00:29:31.613
Genie Joseph: So I hope you'll be with us for those shows too.
00:29:32.193 --> 00:29:32.753
Michael Overlie: Absolutely.
00:29:32.913 --> 00:29:33.573
Michael Overlie: What an honor.
00:29:33.593 --> 00:29:37.373
Michael Overlie: Thank you so much for bringing me in to share your message and your work.
00:29:37.393 --> 00:29:38.273
Michael Overlie: This has been wonderful.
00:29:38.753 --> 00:29:39.273
Genie Joseph: Thank you.
00:29:40.153 --> 00:29:41.073
Genie Joseph: And thank you, everyone.
00:29:41.093 --> 00:29:42.913
Genie Joseph: We'll say aloha for now.
00:29:43.293 --> 00:29:44.133
Michael Overlie: Aloha for now.
00:29:49.378 --> 00:29:52.258
Announcer: Thank you for tuning in to The Human-Animal Connection Show.
00:29:52.598 --> 00:29:56.878
Announcer: Please visit our website, thehumananimalconnection.org.
00:29:57.318 --> 00:30:03.838
Announcer: There you can sign up for our free email newsletter, book a consultation, or check out our blogs and resources.
00:30:04.178 --> 00:30:08.898
Announcer: Our best-selling book, The Human-Animal Connection, is available on Amazon.
00:30:09.198 --> 00:30:15.138
Announcer: And your donation of any amount keeps our non-profit organization providing life-changing services.
00:30:15.618 --> 00:30:27.698
Announcer: You can reach Michael Overlie, author of Let Your Dog Lead, musings on how to create an exceptional life, on his website at dogsandmen.com or email michael at dogsandmen.com.
00:30:30.818 --> 00:30:36.778
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