Ethical Connections
With so many ethical questions relating to how humans treat animals, it can feel overwhelming. We suggest picking one area of interest that speaks to your heart. It could be protecting one species, or it could be animal welfare issues right in your neighborhood. Can you work with others who care about this issue? Can you donate to organizations that are really helping? Can you volunteer or educate lawmakers? No one can save the world alone – but together we can make a difference. This episode explores both some of the issues such as how many farm animals are being raised in terrible conditions, and animal testing – which is 95% INEFFECTIVE with humans – even if they pass animal trials. We explore one important way we can make animal testing more humane. Just thinking about doing one good thing can lift morale and give meaning to your life.
Can you or your church or school or business plant milkweed to save the butterflies? There is always one thing you can do that touches your heart and gives you a feeling of camaraderie with others – and can have a powerful impact – even for one species.
Listen to Episode #32 Now:
Transcript:
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Announcer: This is Pet Life Radio.
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Announcer: Let's talk pets.
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Announcer: Welcome to The Human-Animal Connection show, where we believe we can communicate with all animals.
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Announcer: Join us as we explore the 33 principles and healing methods of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Announcer: As animal lovers, we know that you share our commitment to making the world a kinder place for all creatures.
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Announcer: Together, let's embrace the transformative healing power of The Human-Animal Connection.
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Michael Overlie: Hey, everybody.
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Michael Overlie: Welcome back to The Human-Animal Connection show.
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Michael Overlie: I am your host, Michael Overlie, and I'm with Genie Joseph.
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Michael Overlie: And oh, do we have something to talk about today.
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Michael Overlie: Genie, let's get into this.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Normally, we talk about these warm and fuzzy stories and happy things, but today we're going to dive into some of the tougher ethical questions about humans and animals and how we're doing.
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Genie Joseph: And we all know it's not that great on the human side.
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Genie Joseph: And I'll just start with a quote.
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Genie Joseph: This is from Thomas Jefferson, and he says, until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: So unfortunately, there is a bit of harm going on, no more than a bit.
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Genie Joseph: There's a lot of harm that goes on to animals between humans.
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Genie Joseph: And I'm not saying that we can stop all of it or stop all of it instantly, but we can look at it and see, well, what is one thing we can do?
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Genie Joseph: Like you might pick an area and say, well, I'm worried about the monarch butterflies.
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Genie Joseph: I'm going to plant milkweed in my yard or something.
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Genie Joseph: You know what I mean?
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Genie Joseph: Like it doesn't mean that we have to save all the animals.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, nobody can save all the animals.
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Genie Joseph: But as a culture, if we were to adopt the notion that we need to do better, we will.
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Genie Joseph: Things do change.
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Genie Joseph: Things have changed.
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Genie Joseph: Chickens were in these ridiculously horrible water cages that hurt their feet.
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Genie Joseph: And now there's some rules about that.
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Genie Joseph: And there's a movement towards free-range chickens.
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Genie Joseph: And people will buy the eggs.
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Genie Joseph: It'll cost a little bit more with the free-range chickens.
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Genie Joseph: So the marketplace has some control over these things.
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Genie Joseph: The fact that Walmart has started carrying free-range chickens now because people want to buy them.
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Genie Joseph: So there's things that we can do.
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Genie Joseph: And so while we're talking about some things, they're a little depressing in this show, in this episode.
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Genie Joseph: Hopefully, it's to get people back into thinking about being inspired to do something.
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Genie Joseph: And I just want to start with a quote from Brother David Seindl Rast and his definition of ethics.
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Genie Joseph: And he said, Ethics is how we behave when we decide that we belong together.
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Genie Joseph: So when we care about the family-ness or the connections between each other and the idea that this is not just short-term, then we treat each other better.
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Genie Joseph: And so that's what I think we need to bring into our humans to animals relationships.
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Genie Joseph: Most of the people listening to this show are people who are animal lovers and doing very good things to at least one animal, if not more.
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Genie Joseph: And that's a wonderful thing.
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Genie Joseph: But we need to kind of think a little bit bigger.
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Michael Overlie: Yeah, yeah, I was going to bring that up.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, I feel for your quote.
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Michael Overlie: How?
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Michael Overlie: And this is not judgment or shame towards anyone, because this is a place I found myself in.
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Michael Overlie: So if I love my dog so much and I feel connected to my dog in this way and that we're all one, well, then how can I eat bacon or a steak or, you know, and, oh my God, I really fought with that because of how I was raised, how, you know, humans here and animals here and dogs are different, you know.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, right.
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Michael Overlie: We can actually create those divisions so that they make sense for us or make us feel better.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Michael Overlie: So for anyone out there listening, there's no shame or blame, no finger pointing, but maybe how can you do one tiny bit better?
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: If you're eating meat, how can you eat less meat or how can you eat meat that's raised more humanely or whatever?
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Genie Joseph: I mean, I think it's really important not to tell people what to do because that never works.
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Genie Joseph: It's like saying, eat your broccoli.
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Genie Joseph: Nobody wants to do it.
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Genie Joseph: Clean up your room.
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Genie Joseph: Nobody wants to do it.
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Genie Joseph: But I think that we all have to find what's the right choice for each of us in terms of those dichotomies because they do create conflict.
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Genie Joseph: They do create tension in our system.
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Genie Joseph: And I want to tell you, well, since we're talking about beef, I'll tell you a story about a cow.
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Genie Joseph: And this was a veterinary named Dr.
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Genie Joseph: Cheever, and this story was in Best Friends magazine.
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Genie Joseph: And I just think it's so important to tell other people, but this was in upstate New York, and a milk cow was going to give birth.
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Genie Joseph: And the farmer was expecting a certain amount of milk per day.
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Genie Joseph: And the cow gave birth in the middle of the night out in the pasture or out in the field, wherever it was, and came back and brought the current farmer, the one calf, but she wasn't producing milk.
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Genie Joseph: And so they brought in the veterinarian, Dr.
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Genie Joseph: Sheaver came in, and they discovered that the cow had had two calves, and she hid one at the edge of the property, and she was feeding and taking care of the one calf.
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Genie Joseph: So she gave the farmer one, and she kept one for herself.
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Genie Joseph: So she understood that if she had kept two calves, that it would have been suspicious.
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Genie Joseph: So she gave the farmer one, knowing what happens to calves, they don't last.
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Genie Joseph: So she took care of one calf and raised it in secret, feeding and tending to it at the edge of the forest, and gave one to the farmer.
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Genie Joseph: And so when you think about that, she made a strategic decision.
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Genie Joseph: She understood what happens to calves that get given back to the farmer.
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Genie Joseph: The farmer takes the calf, and she understood that she couldn't take both, that she had to choose one.
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Genie Joseph: So it's like a Sophie's choice for cows.
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Genie Joseph: And this veterinarian, this was amazing to her because she wasn't somebody who thought about these kinds of things normally, but it really opened her eyes that there's so much more going on behind those beautiful cow eyes than meets the eye.
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Genie Joseph: Because this cow thought all of this through, where she needed to hide the cow, that she needed to hide the cow, that she should only hide one cow, that she had to pick one and not two.
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Genie Joseph: All of this is all stuff that we would attribute to a human being.
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Genie Joseph: And yet, here's this cow making all of these choices.
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Genie Joseph: And so, when we hear stories like that, we have to really say, hmm.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah?
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Michael Overlie: Oh my gosh.
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Michael Overlie: Yeah.
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Michael Overlie: I mean, we get so stuck in our heads.
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Michael Overlie: We think we're top of the food chain.
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Michael Overlie: When in reality, if we didn't have our tools and our guns and our clothing, we would have been taken out a long time ago.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Really, really.
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Genie Joseph: It's been kind of uneven for a long time.
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Genie Joseph: And I think it can be overwhelming as caring human beings.
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Genie Joseph: People who listen to the show are compassionate, empathetic people.
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Genie Joseph: And it can be daunting when you think about all the problems out there.
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Genie Joseph: So my suggestion when people tell me it's daunting is, yes, it's daunting.
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Genie Joseph: Pick one area where you can have an impact.
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Genie Joseph: And whether that's you're donating to a cause, whether that's you're doing volunteer work, whether that's you're educating people, spreading the message, or taking action.
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Genie Joseph: Like for example, with the monarch butterflies that in the last 20 years, the Environmental Defense Fund has said that we've lost 95% of the monarch butterflies.
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Genie Joseph: And these are the beautiful black and orange butterflies that fly 3000 miles for their migration.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, amazing, right?
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Genie Joseph: And so one simple thing we can do is plant milkweed.
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Genie Joseph: And I need to find out how to do that, because that's something I'd like to do.
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Genie Joseph: I don't know if we can do it in Arizona.
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Genie Joseph: I don't know how hard it is to grow milkweed, but schools and churches and offices.
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Genie Joseph: And there's one building in New York City that has constructed the building so that it's a butterfly habitat where they can do this.
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Genie Joseph: And you can see the outside, there's all these butterflies flying around in this, what would be the front-facing windows of the building, and it's a butterfly habitat.
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Genie Joseph: So if people had the consciousness, intention, desire, commitment, willingness to do things, things can be done.
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Genie Joseph: We can't fix all the problems.
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Genie Joseph: We can't bring back the animals that are already extinct, but we can do something.
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Genie Joseph: We can do one thing.
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Genie Joseph: So that's I think what helps people to think in terms of what's the one thing I could do.
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Genie Joseph: Like one of the the charities that I support is not even in this country.
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Genie Joseph: It's called Animals Asia, and they help rescue the moon bears, which are small bears that, unfortunately, the belief, the superstition has been that their bile helps men to become more virile.
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Genie Joseph: And that's not true, but that's resulted in them being in cages their entire life with no medical attention, no sunlight, no friendship, no comfort, no nothing.
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Genie Joseph: They have rescued over 700 bears, and they've been instrumental in getting the laws changed in Vietnam to make this practice less likely to continue.
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Genie Joseph: So they've done a lot, and it's through education and people helping in whatever way they can through donations, through spreading the word, anything that you can do to just make it a little bit of a better place for animals.
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Genie Joseph: And it helps us feel better about ourselves and the world when we do that.
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Michael Overlie: Absolutely.
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Michael Overlie: And you don't have to foster dogs, right?
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Michael Overlie: You don't have to become a trainer or facilitator anyway.
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Michael Overlie: As you mentioned before, support a cause that feels good to you.
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Michael Overlie: There's a million nonprofits out there that are helping in some fashion.
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Michael Overlie: Just pick one and send them a few dollars.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, it might be a species that you care about.
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Genie Joseph: Like, I care a lot about donkeys, so I support organizations that rescue donkeys and the moon bearers and different things.
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Genie Joseph: And then I'll go and volunteer at the shelter working with the dogs.
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Genie Joseph: We have a foster dog laying at my feet right now, so there's different ways that we can help.
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Genie Joseph: And there's 500 dogs right now in the shelter.
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Genie Joseph: All five of them need to be in a house as nice as mine.
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Genie Joseph: But I mean, by nice is not fancy, but in terms of the love and the understanding of dog nature.
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Genie Joseph: It's like heaven for dogs here because of all that good stuff.
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Genie Joseph: So I can't, there's 499 that I didn't help, but there's one that I am helping.
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Genie Joseph: Well, I mean, it depends.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, some people are big thinkers and they can think through the big problems.
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Genie Joseph: One of the things like lab animals, right?
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Genie Joseph: Let's talk about that.
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Genie Joseph: I mean, horrible, horrible what goes on in labs.
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Genie Joseph: And you know what the worst thing about labs is that 95% of the studies that are proven safe on animals are not safe.
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Genie Joseph: All that medication and all that stuff is not safe when they go to human trials, meaning animal trials don't work.
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Genie Joseph: They are not effective.
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Genie Joseph: They are not scientific.
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Genie Joseph: They are anti-scientific because humans and animals are different.
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Genie Joseph: And what medication works, how it works with an animal may be very different for how it works for a human.
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Genie Joseph: So I'm not saying that all animal testing has to be eliminated, but if it's going to exist, it has to be different, and it has to be less, because most of these things, like for example, in the cosmetics industry, it's not required that you do animal testing.
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Genie Joseph: These cosmetics companies just do it.
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Genie Joseph: They just do it because they can, not because it's good.
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Genie Joseph: It's not good for the humans.
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Genie Joseph: It doesn't really prove anything.
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Genie Joseph: And so a lot of rabbits are suffering, getting all this makeup on their face, and I don't know why they use rabbits for that, but it's horrible when you see them trapped in these little contraptions that hold them absolutely, entirely still, which is the last thing a rabbit wants, is to be contained like that.
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Genie Joseph: And it's not even necessary.
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Genie Joseph: So like little things like buying products that are not animal tested because there's no requirement for these products, these cosmetic products to be animal tested.
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Genie Joseph: So use your pocketbook to make sure that you're buying products that aren't.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Michael Overlie: Yeah, vote with your dollar.
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Michael Overlie: I mean, that's always held true.
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Genie Joseph: Right.
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Genie Joseph: We forget that.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah.
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Genie Joseph: Well, I think people probably need a little break right now.
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Genie Joseph: I do.
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Genie Joseph: I know.
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Genie Joseph: We're going to take a short break.
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Announcer: Hey, friends, if you like what you're hearing and want to learn more, check out Dr.
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Announcer: Joseph's book, The Human-Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and Ourselves.
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Announcer: Or visit the website, thehumananimalconnection.org, to book an online consultation.
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Announcer: Thank you for loving animals.
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Announcer: Now back to the show.
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Announcer: Let's Talk Pets on petliferadio.com.
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Michael Overlie: All right, hey, welcome back, folks.
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Michael Overlie: I know this is a tough one, so thanks for sticking with this, but this is really important information to have.
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Michael Overlie: And if it makes you uncomfortable or makes you feel something a little bit, then that's a good thing, right?
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Michael Overlie: Because we can all do better, including myself.
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Michael Overlie: So thank you for being here.
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Genie Joseph: Yeah, I mean, the discomfort is the birth process, is the growth process, is the life process.
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Genie Joseph: So forgive us for telling you, talking about things that I don't want to talk about, and you probably don't want to hear, but it's important that we get proactive, that we say, okay, you know what?
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Genie Joseph: I can't solve all the problems.
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Genie Joseph: I'm going to address one of them.
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Genie Joseph: I'm going to educate people, or I'm going to donate to a cause, or I'm going to volunteer, or whatever it is.
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Genie Joseph: We can do something.
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Genie Joseph: And I just want to say one thing about the lab animals for a moment.
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Genie Joseph: One of the animals that are often used in dog testing are beagles because they're so sweet and gentle, and they don't fight back and docile.
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Genie Joseph: But a lot of these animals are euthanized at the end of the studies and not even given a chance to be adopted.
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Genie Joseph: And the military does a lot of this.
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Genie Joseph: Kittens get killed by the military.
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Genie Joseph: This is taxpayer money, and usually experiments we don't even hear about.
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Genie Joseph: So we need to vote for people who have better policies and who are willing to support animal welfare policies.
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Genie Joseph: So there are some politicians who care a lot about this, and we can support those that do, and let the ones that don't know that they really should be.
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Genie Joseph: So there's lots of ways that we can get involved, depending upon your style.
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Genie Joseph: But one of the things I want to say about lab animals is that, especially with the social animals, they are often kept in solitary cages, which is like on top of all the horror that they go through.
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Genie Joseph: And a lot of these experiments are painful and destructive and horrific.
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Genie Joseph: But on top of everything else, they keep them separate, where they have no connection with their species.
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Genie Joseph: And for social animals, it's like solitary confinement for humans.
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Genie Joseph: It's really cruel, and it doesn't have to be like that.
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Genie Joseph: So there's this one lab in Japan.
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Genie Joseph: Forgive me for forgetting the guy's name who set this lab up, but he's doing studies with chimpanzees.
00:15:18.562 --> 00:15:21.782
Genie Joseph: But the way he set up his study is that they have the option.
00:15:22.202 --> 00:15:28.622
Genie Joseph: They can go play with their friends and come back in, do the study, get a treat, and go back out and play with their friends.
00:15:28.642 --> 00:15:33.842
Genie Joseph: So they choose when they want to participate in the research, and they can choose when they want to be social.
00:15:34.302 --> 00:15:38.422
Genie Joseph: And that takes a little bit more effort than just putting them in individual cages.
00:15:38.442 --> 00:15:39.542
Genie Joseph: But do you know what?
00:15:39.642 --> 00:15:46.282
Genie Joseph: That should be the bottom line, is that social animals should have the choice of when to engage and when not to engage.
00:15:46.542 --> 00:15:52.822
Genie Joseph: Even if it's like certain hours that are studies versus the freedom of choice, which is wonderful in this primate lab.
00:15:52.842 --> 00:16:10.702
Genie Joseph: So in this primate lab, what they're testing is animals have, I think it's called idiopathic memories, meaning that they can see 10 numbers on a screen, all random numbers, 10 numbers all jumbled all around on a screen for like, I think a second or maybe less, but very short, and they can remember it exactly.
00:16:10.722 --> 00:16:12.842
Genie Joseph: They can put all the numbers back in the right spots.
00:16:13.142 --> 00:16:14.942
Genie Joseph: And humans can do maybe three numbers.
00:16:15.302 --> 00:16:20.142
Genie Joseph: So the chimpanzees, there's no human who's been able to outsmart the chimpanzee on this test.
00:16:20.542 --> 00:16:32.922
Genie Joseph: And even if they get distracted, like you said, you know, make some noise over here and they look away from the screen, they still come back and put all the numbers in the right place, or almost all, but they do it at a rate that's faster and more accurate than humans.
00:16:33.242 --> 00:16:38.722
Genie Joseph: And so that's just an example of one of the ways that we should respect chimpanzee intelligence.
00:16:38.742 --> 00:16:40.842
Genie Joseph: Here's a thing that they can do that we can't really do.
00:16:41.382 --> 00:16:46.782
Genie Joseph: Of course, there are things we can do that they can't do, but there are things that they can do that we can't do, you know, pattern recognition.
00:16:47.222 --> 00:16:55.182
Genie Joseph: And pigeons have been taught to detect hairline fractures on X-rays with an accuracy that equals the medical professionals.
00:16:55.862 --> 00:17:00.302
Genie Joseph: So I like to tell people that story because pigeons never get a lot of respect.
00:17:00.382 --> 00:17:02.342
Genie Joseph: I mean, Tesla respected them.
00:17:02.682 --> 00:17:10.722
Genie Joseph: He, Nicholas Tesla, not the Elon Musk Tesla, but the Nicholas Tesla used to study pigeons and feed them and watch them.
00:17:10.742 --> 00:17:12.582
Genie Joseph: And Leonardo da Vinci did.
00:17:12.922 --> 00:17:20.942
Genie Joseph: Anyway, I like to tell the stories about pigeons because they don't get a lot of respect in our world, and they really should because they've got some extraordinary visual abilities.
00:17:20.962 --> 00:17:26.442
Genie Joseph: They can be trained to detect metastasized cancer on cells on slides.
00:17:26.482 --> 00:17:30.982
Genie Joseph: When they show them slides, they can peck, and they'll say, this is cancer, this is not cancer.
00:17:31.422 --> 00:17:32.862
Genie Joseph: It's just amazing what they can do.
00:17:33.342 --> 00:17:48.402
Genie Joseph: So yeah, I think even if we are forced to have some laboratory animal experiments, we should have less, we should have animals have as much freedom as choices we can possibly give them, including with social animals, to have some time where they get to be with their species.
00:17:48.422 --> 00:17:59.542
Genie Joseph: So that's an example of how we're not going to be able to eliminate laboratory animal experiments with a wave of our hands, but we can at least advocate for more humane methods.
00:17:59.822 --> 00:18:07.142
Genie Joseph: But again, remembering that 95% of the tests that pass with animal studies are not going to pass with human studies.
00:18:07.162 --> 00:18:20.142
Genie Joseph: So I think we really have to keep looking for better methods of scientific testing, which there's an organization called NAVS, N-A-V-S, and that is National Anti-Vivisection Society.
00:18:20.582 --> 00:18:23.722
Genie Joseph: And they are really, really working on this issue.
00:18:24.122 --> 00:18:38.782
Genie Joseph: And they give grants to graduate students who have developed alternative testing methods that don't involve animal testing and are very reliable and very scientific and cost-effective and don't involve using any animals.
00:18:39.262 --> 00:18:41.242
Genie Joseph: So they are a wonderful organization.
00:18:41.262 --> 00:18:45.722
Genie Joseph: There are a couple other organizations that support that too, but NAVS is one of the ones that I support.
00:18:45.742 --> 00:18:52.662
Genie Joseph: So I really think that this is so important because when I was in high school and it was time to dissect the frog, I was totally traumatized.
00:18:52.682 --> 00:18:54.082
Genie Joseph: I couldn't do it, I couldn't handle it.
00:18:54.462 --> 00:18:58.282
Genie Joseph: And I got flunked for that portion of the program.
00:18:59.882 --> 00:19:03.022
Genie Joseph: I had had an interest in medical science and other things.
00:19:03.042 --> 00:19:14.402
Genie Joseph: I was thinking of going in that direction until that class, but that class made me say, no, it can turn off a lot of kids to that kind of science and medicine.
00:19:14.962 --> 00:19:22.682
Genie Joseph: And NAVS, they've developed a whole computer program where you can do all of this stuff with the frogs without touching a frog.
00:19:23.202 --> 00:19:32.802
Genie Joseph: So it's more economical, it's more ethical, it's safer, because I think, let me see, I think I have some statistic about the frogs.
00:19:32.822 --> 00:19:38.102
Genie Joseph: Yeah, there's 6 to 10 million frogs captured and killed and sent to classrooms in the US.
00:19:38.422 --> 00:19:39.402
Genie Joseph: That's a lot of frogs.
00:19:39.922 --> 00:19:48.082
Genie Joseph: And only in about 18 states will they allow students to opt out of doing live VIVA section or VIVA section on a real frog.
00:19:48.582 --> 00:19:51.422
Genie Joseph: But these computer programs are more effective.
00:19:51.442 --> 00:19:57.182
Genie Joseph: They teach better, they give you much more views and much more understanding.
00:19:57.482 --> 00:20:00.622
Genie Joseph: So you don't have to rip a frog to shreds to learn.
00:20:00.642 --> 00:20:07.062
Genie Joseph: And that's something that there are some teachers who are so hung up on, well, we've always done it this way.
00:20:07.082 --> 00:20:08.262
Genie Joseph: Why shouldn't we do it this way?
00:20:08.742 --> 00:20:10.162
Genie Joseph: And they need to be educated.
00:20:10.462 --> 00:20:15.922
Genie Joseph: And this is something that we need to help people understand that there are alternatives to cruelty.
00:20:16.742 --> 00:20:19.102
Genie Joseph: Cruelty is not the only option.
00:20:19.822 --> 00:20:24.642
Genie Joseph: It may be the option that's been used, but it's not necessarily the option that should continue.
00:20:25.622 --> 00:20:27.642
Genie Joseph: And so the frogs are just one example of that.
00:20:28.282 --> 00:20:32.222
Michael Overlie: What came to mind was just because we can doesn't mean we should.
00:20:32.522 --> 00:20:33.902
Genie Joseph: Right, exactly.
00:20:33.922 --> 00:20:48.862
Genie Joseph: Yeah, so I think that, you know, I know this is not a happy-go-lucky show, but if it gets people thinking and it gets people willing to take the action that they find appropriate for them, we will have done our service.
00:20:48.922 --> 00:21:00.622
Genie Joseph: You know, we will have done the work that we needed to do because we need to get people thinking and talking and working together on thinking about creative ways to change these cruel methods and to look at alternatives that are not cruel.
00:21:01.742 --> 00:21:04.082
Michael Overlie: Now, I know you've got some other statistics as well.
00:21:04.662 --> 00:21:05.582
Genie Joseph: No, I don't have any more.
00:21:10.122 --> 00:21:11.742
Genie Joseph: Oh, yeah, well, the farm animals.
00:21:13.862 --> 00:21:15.222
Genie Joseph: I conveniently forgot.
00:21:15.742 --> 00:21:18.202
Michael Overlie: It's a good to finish on.
00:21:18.282 --> 00:21:20.222
Genie Joseph: Yeah, it's a good, good old hefty one.
00:21:20.242 --> 00:21:21.142
Genie Joseph: Well, OK, so.
00:21:21.542 --> 00:21:22.022
Michael Overlie: Go for it.
00:21:22.502 --> 00:21:22.942
Genie Joseph: All right.
00:21:24.042 --> 00:21:24.602
Genie Joseph: It's horrible.
00:21:24.982 --> 00:21:28.242
Genie Joseph: How many farm animals do you think are slaughtered for food each year?
00:21:28.842 --> 00:21:29.342
Michael Overlie: Billions.
00:21:29.662 --> 00:21:30.002
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:21:30.422 --> 00:21:32.442
Genie Joseph: 80 billion with a B.
00:21:32.742 --> 00:21:35.262
Genie Joseph: Sorry if I popped the microphone, but 80 billion with a B.
00:21:36.142 --> 00:21:36.502
Genie Joseph: 080?
00:21:36.842 --> 00:21:39.842
Genie Joseph: 80, 80, 80 billion farm animals.
00:21:39.862 --> 00:21:44.002
Genie Joseph: So chickens and cows and, you know, all of that.
00:21:44.102 --> 00:21:45.662
Genie Joseph: You know, just all of that.
00:21:46.202 --> 00:21:47.842
Genie Joseph: It's really, really awful.
00:21:48.282 --> 00:21:49.002
Genie Joseph: Really awful.
00:21:49.702 --> 00:21:52.682
Genie Joseph: And when it comes to fish, it's more.
00:21:53.082 --> 00:21:59.242
Genie Joseph: It's anywhere from 50 to 160 billion farm fish who live in terrible conditions.
00:21:59.262 --> 00:22:00.202
Genie Joseph: I don't know if you've ever seen them.
00:22:00.222 --> 00:22:01.702
Genie Joseph: They have to swim in like this maze.
00:22:01.722 --> 00:22:02.282
Genie Joseph: It's horrible.
00:22:02.842 --> 00:22:06.122
Genie Joseph: And it's nothing that a fish would ever want for themselves.
00:22:06.142 --> 00:22:13.042
Genie Joseph: I mean, the only thing they have is water, and they're so unhealthy because they're swimming and they're stressed.
00:22:13.082 --> 00:22:21.062
Genie Joseph: I mean, it's been shown that fish feel stress, and so they get stressed, and then they have to give them more chemicals to make them, and then there's more crap in the water.
00:22:21.082 --> 00:22:23.502
Genie Joseph: It's just horrible what goes on.
00:22:23.522 --> 00:22:24.422
Genie Joseph: It's really awful.
00:22:25.122 --> 00:22:25.622
Genie Joseph: I hate it.
00:22:25.962 --> 00:22:26.722
Genie Joseph: It's so horrible.
00:22:27.202 --> 00:22:33.222
Genie Joseph: So, you know, this is some of the problems that we have in our human world that we have created as a race.
00:22:33.262 --> 00:22:40.962
Genie Joseph: We have made these problems, and of course, we're trying to give people good food, and we just have to find ways that we can do both.
00:22:41.282 --> 00:22:47.122
Genie Joseph: How can we give people healthy nourishing food that don't involve this level of treatment of animals?
00:22:47.782 --> 00:22:48.762
Michael Overlie: Yeah, good question.
00:22:50.222 --> 00:22:52.182
Michael Overlie: I'll see how I can do a tiny bit better today.
00:22:52.422 --> 00:23:00.262
Genie Joseph: Yeah, you know, everyone just needs to just do a little better, you know, so it's like, find the steps that feel good to you to do.
00:23:00.262 --> 00:23:07.042
Genie Joseph: Don't do something that's like a should, you know, or identify the organizations that are doing the work that you really admire.
00:23:07.062 --> 00:23:18.082
Genie Joseph: And you got to look beyond their slick brochure, you know, you got to do your research, you know, because everybody can make a nice website or a nice mailer or whatever, but I don't open anything that has a tortured animal on the front.
00:23:18.102 --> 00:23:23.482
Genie Joseph: I just throw those in the trash because I don't support those organizations that use horror and fear.
00:23:23.822 --> 00:23:28.302
Genie Joseph: You know, I look for organizations that are more respectful of the person opening the envelope.
00:23:28.322 --> 00:23:28.982
Genie Joseph: So that's just me.
00:23:29.282 --> 00:23:38.902
Genie Joseph: But, you know, people need to just find whatever things that, like, one of the organizations, it's Heifer, maybe I have it wrong.
00:23:40.022 --> 00:23:41.602
Michael Overlie: Heifer International.
00:23:41.622 --> 00:23:42.682
Genie Joseph: Heifer, thank you.
00:23:42.702 --> 00:23:43.502
Genie Joseph: Heifer, couldn't think of it.
00:23:44.322 --> 00:23:51.602
Genie Joseph: So you can buy a cow or a part of a cow, meaning you pay for half of someone else pays for half, not that you send half a cow.
00:23:51.662 --> 00:23:55.062
Genie Joseph: Okay, so you can send a cow to a country, a place that really needs it.
00:23:55.082 --> 00:24:02.702
Genie Joseph: And people's lives change when they get a cow, and they get better milk, and they get better nutrition, and then the family is more freed, and the girls can go to school.
00:24:02.722 --> 00:24:08.422
Genie Joseph: And all kinds of things happen from just getting a cow, or getting chickens, or getting rabbits.
00:24:08.442 --> 00:24:12.502
Genie Joseph: And they teach them how to work with the animals.
00:24:12.522 --> 00:24:14.242
Genie Joseph: They don't just hand them a chicken and leave.
00:24:14.562 --> 00:24:19.002
Genie Joseph: They tell them, they teach them about animal husbandry and the things that they need to know.
00:24:19.022 --> 00:24:22.022
Genie Joseph: And sometimes they breed, and then they can share it with other people.
00:24:22.042 --> 00:24:23.742
Genie Joseph: And whole villages have changed.
00:24:23.762 --> 00:24:28.282
Genie Joseph: So I find that organization very appealing, but that's me.
00:24:28.362 --> 00:24:30.622
Genie Joseph: There are different organizations doing different things.
00:24:30.642 --> 00:24:32.642
Genie Joseph: So what is it that appeals to you?
00:24:32.662 --> 00:24:35.242
Genie Joseph: Like, do you have any organizations, Michael, that you support?
00:24:35.882 --> 00:24:36.902
Michael Overlie: Yeah, yeah.
00:24:36.922 --> 00:24:39.522
Michael Overlie: So I support the Street Dog Coalition.
00:24:40.582 --> 00:24:41.562
Genie Joseph: Tell us about that.
00:24:41.702 --> 00:24:44.042
Michael Overlie: I know the founder, actually, personally.
00:24:44.062 --> 00:24:44.822
Michael Overlie: He's a friend of mine.
00:24:45.882 --> 00:24:46.862
Genie Joseph: That helps, you know.
00:24:47.222 --> 00:24:59.222
Michael Overlie: The Street Dog Coalition helps provide veterinary services to people who can't afford it, typically homeless, indigent people, sometimes people on really fixed, limited incomes.
00:25:00.902 --> 00:25:03.742
Michael Overlie: But they host clinics in a number of places around town.
00:25:03.762 --> 00:25:05.042
Michael Overlie: It started here in Fort Collins.
00:25:05.422 --> 00:25:07.482
Michael Overlie: Now they're in 60 cities.
00:25:07.882 --> 00:25:12.282
Michael Overlie: So veterinarians all over the place are picking up the mantle for this.
00:25:12.882 --> 00:25:19.342
Michael Overlie: And currently, as this is being recorded, John Geller, who runs Street Dog, is in Ukraine again.
00:25:20.422 --> 00:25:24.022
Michael Overlie: Helping take care of the animals that are coming across the border.
00:25:24.962 --> 00:25:25.902
Michael Overlie: He's been there before.
00:25:25.922 --> 00:25:35.422
Michael Overlie: He has a whole gigantic trailer full of medications and equipment and everything that his foundation put together and shipped over there.
00:25:36.582 --> 00:25:37.522
Genie Joseph: That's beautiful.
00:25:37.962 --> 00:25:38.862
Genie Joseph: That's so beautiful.
00:25:38.882 --> 00:25:42.222
Genie Joseph: We'll do a show on that, on the work of Street Dog and him.
00:25:42.242 --> 00:25:48.482
Genie Joseph: I mean, sometimes just one person starting something can then spread to 60 other cities and other countries.
00:25:49.042 --> 00:25:52.922
Genie Joseph: Oh my God, that rafter is like the size of my arms outstretched.
00:25:52.942 --> 00:25:54.562
Genie Joseph: That's how big it is, flying through the sky.
00:25:54.762 --> 00:25:56.622
Genie Joseph: Sorry, just tangents.
00:25:56.902 --> 00:25:57.482
Genie Joseph: I love it.
00:25:59.062 --> 00:26:04.422
Genie Joseph: Yeah, but we will do a show just on that, because one person can make a big difference.
00:26:04.442 --> 00:26:21.422
Genie Joseph: You'd be surprised the things are, if you can get together with a couple of friends and just work with the feral cats in your area or whatever, trap, neuter and release, where you take those cats and take them in and get them fixed, neutered, and then they go back to their environment.
00:26:23.442 --> 00:26:25.522
Genie Joseph: There's a lot of things you can do.
00:26:25.542 --> 00:26:30.762
Genie Joseph: What we don't want to do is get people feeling passive, that, oh, the situation is so terrible, I'm going to do nothing.
00:26:30.782 --> 00:26:32.162
Genie Joseph: I'm going to go put my head in the sand.
00:26:32.402 --> 00:26:36.482
Genie Joseph: So I think it's important to hear these stories about what people are doing.
00:26:37.282 --> 00:26:43.942
Genie Joseph: So churches that grow milkweed in their yards, and people who do other things that just help.
00:26:46.902 --> 00:26:51.302
Genie Joseph: And we can make a difference if we take good action, right action.
00:26:51.902 --> 00:26:52.302
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:26:52.382 --> 00:26:54.682
Michael Overlie: You don't have to try and save the world, folks.
00:26:54.702 --> 00:26:57.442
Michael Overlie: Just take one tiny step, do one tiny thing.
00:26:58.022 --> 00:26:58.302
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:26:58.542 --> 00:27:00.502
Michael Overlie: That's it, if it feels right to you.
00:27:00.542 --> 00:27:01.502
Genie Joseph: That's right.
00:27:01.862 --> 00:27:05.542
Genie Joseph: And if nothing else, just send money to the organizations who are doing it out in the field.
00:27:05.562 --> 00:27:05.842
Genie Joseph: Exactly.
00:27:06.122 --> 00:27:08.382
Michael Overlie: Yeah, you don't have to directly participate.
00:27:08.522 --> 00:27:12.682
Michael Overlie: As Gina said, send money to someone who you think is doing amazing work in the world.
00:27:12.702 --> 00:27:20.682
Genie Joseph: Yeah, make sure that they are, but yeah, it can really, because sometimes that's those organizations, they need money to continue and we can help them.
00:27:21.002 --> 00:27:22.402
Genie Joseph: And we're one of those organizations.
00:27:22.422 --> 00:27:23.262
Genie Joseph: We're a nonprofit.
00:27:23.382 --> 00:27:31.182
Genie Joseph: You can go to our website, thehumananimalconnection.org, and help us with our veteran program or our high school program, where we bring trained therapy dogs in to help.
00:27:31.682 --> 00:27:34.902
Genie Joseph: So if you would like to support us in our work, we would be delighted.
00:27:36.222 --> 00:27:36.542
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:27:37.462 --> 00:27:45.902
Genie Joseph: Until then, if you would like to read our book, The Human-Animal Connection, it's online, and it's also now online in audio, so you can listen to our book.
00:27:47.102 --> 00:27:47.902
Genie Joseph: Isn't that exciting?
00:27:48.442 --> 00:27:48.822
Genie Joseph: Yeah.
00:27:49.002 --> 00:27:53.062
Genie Joseph: Anyway, thanks, Michael, and thanks, everyone, for tuning in, being with us today.
00:27:53.082 --> 00:27:54.842
Genie Joseph: We hope you'll be with us again soon.
00:27:54.862 --> 00:27:56.982
Michael Overlie: Aloha for now.
00:28:02.522 --> 00:28:05.322
Genie Joseph: Thank you for tuning in to The Human-Animal Connection show.
00:28:06.322 --> 00:28:06.642
Genie Joseph: Thank you.
00:28:07.562 --> 00:28:10.062
Genie Joseph: The Human-Animal connection.org.
00:28:10.502 --> 00:28:17.022
Genie Joseph: There you can sign up for our free email newsletter, book a consultation, or check out our blogs and resources.
00:28:17.362 --> 00:28:22.082
Genie Joseph: Our best-selling book, The Human-Animal Connection, is available on Amazon.
00:28:22.382 --> 00:28:28.322
Genie Joseph: And your donation of any amount keeps our nonprofit organization providing life-changing services.
00:28:28.802 --> 00:28:40.902
Genie Joseph: You can reach Michael Overly, author of Let Your Dog Lead, musings on how to create an exceptional life, on his website at dogsandmen.com, or email Michael at dogsandmen.com.
00:28:44.022 --> 00:28:50.022
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